Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
General health

Mumsnet doesn't verify the qualifications of users. If you have medical concerns, please consult a healthcare professional.

Original poster

Anyone who has a child/children

152 replies

holdenmcgroin1979 · 19/08/2012 22:14

that hasn't vaccinated? Starting to think I am the only one as out of my group of friends I am the only one whose children aren't.

OP posts:
Tabitha8 · 25/08/2012 20:00

One child, unvaccinated and I know a few other people with unvaccinated children, too, of various ages.
Re herd immunity, Elaine: Who needs the vaccine to ensure herd immunity? Only the children? The parents? Grandparents? Neighbours? How many need to be vaccinated?

bumbleymummy · 27/08/2012 19:25

Of course, silverfrog! How did I forget that? Confused How are things with you anyway? Haven't seen you around for a while.

silverfrog · 27/08/2012 20:03

all fine, thanks bumbley.

am reading a lot, but can't always post as am usually marooned on the sofa feeding ds - 5 weeks old tomorrow Smile

bumbleymummy · 27/08/2012 20:34

Congratulations! :) I knew you were due over the summer so I thought that a new snuggly little one may have had something to do with not seeing you! Hope everything is going well x

Original poster
holdenmcgroin1979 · 27/08/2012 21:13

sashh Yes i have witnessed whooping cough first hand, my baby daughter caught it at 4 weeks old and spent a week in hospital. She didn't however catch it from her siblings as all the tests they had (blood and mouth swabs) came back negative so it must have came from one of our vaccinated visitors as up until that point she hadn't been out the house apart from with her siblings in the garden. Funnily enough even though she caught it none of her siblings did even though they to are unvaccinated. This also kinda knocks the whole herd immunity thing on the head as being the only one out of my circle of friends who doesn't vaccinate either my friends or their vaccinated children made my daughter sick! I did wonder if it was something she picked up in hospital when she was born however the longest incubation period for this illness is 21 days and as she was 28 days there is very little chance of that being the cause.

OP posts:
ElaineBenes · 28/08/2012 02:52

Kinda knocks the whole concept of contagious disease on the head as well. Maybe miasma theory is better?

JoTheHot · 28/08/2012 08:01

How do you know the source wasn't one of the parents of your childrens' friends, or your partner, or...you?

Looks like the herd immunity thing lives to fight another day, and reduce infection among the unvaccinated.

Original poster
holdenmcgroin1979 · 28/08/2012 08:33

I know that it didn't come from myself or my partner as we both had to get tested as well (one of the nurses at the hospital who fully agreed and supported our decision not to vaccinate said all immediate family should get testing, as we don't vaccinate the DOH may investigate and for us to get tested to cover our own backs if nothing else). As it stands all my friends are of an age whereby they would have been vaccinated as children. Like Tabitha8 said in her post above, who needs to be vaccinated to ensure herd immunity? At the end of the day these illnesses are viruses! Anyone who does their research should know viruses mutate therefore rendering the vaccines useless as they are only designed to protect against one strain not several.

OP posts:
Original poster
holdenmcgroin1979 · 28/08/2012 08:33

get tested even.

OP posts:
JoTheHot · 28/08/2012 09:10

To pick one glaring error, from what is a pretty wide choice: here we are discussing whooping cough, and you say, 'At the end of the day these illnesses are viruses!'. It's good to know you've done stuff all by way of background reading, before coming on here and spouting scientifically illiterate crap.

iggi777 · 28/08/2012 09:21

Whooping cough vaccine wears off: therefore adults may well have had it. Not likely to kill you if you're 30 though.

ElaineBenes · 28/08/2012 11:55

Just wondering - if whooping cough has an incubation period of 21 days, can you not test negative and still be the source of infection?

Im actually really skeptical about these stories from anti vaxers about how their kids all picked up vaccine preventable diseases from vaccinated kids. I think that herd immunity makes them feel really uncomfortable so they prefer to just deny its existence. But it's not a mythical concept, it's an empirically observed scientific fact.

ElaineBenes · 28/08/2012 12:01

Good point Jo! That's the problem about google based research when you don't have a clue.

bumbleymummy · 28/08/2012 12:27

What does picking up diseases from vaccinated kids have to do with denying herd immunity Elaine?

ElaineBenes · 28/08/2012 12:40

Ask Holden. She thinks she's kinda knocked herd immunity on the head.

I agree though bumbley. I dont think they've 'knocked herd immunity on the head' either with these silly examples which are proof of zilch.

bumbleymummy · 28/08/2012 12:56

I thought she was talking about the concept of herd immunity 'protecting' those who are not vaccinated. When your child is the only unvaccinated child in your 'herd' of friends and their children you would think they wouldn't catch something from them.

It is possible to catch diseases from vaccinated children (vaccines aren't 100% effective) so I'm not sure why you find it hard to believe. Unless you think that no vaccinated child has ever caught the disease they were vaccinated against or has spread it to others but I don't think that's the case.

Tabitha8 · 28/08/2012 15:10

So, to maintain herd immunity, we would need to vaccinate the parents, grandparents and the rest of society, then, would we not? So, why do we not do so?
Why are we told to vaccinate our children in order to maintain herd immunity but never ourselves?
I had the whooping cough jab as a child. My immunity may well have worn off by now, so I could catch it and pass it about, could I not?

ElaineBenes · 28/08/2012 18:20

Tabitha

With an illness with waning immunity like whooping cough? Yes.

If I had a newborn baby, I'd absolutely make sure that anyone in extended contact was vaccinated/had a booster against whooping cough. 40% of whooping cough cases in infants are from the mother.

Bumbley

Herd immunity is all about probabilities, not absolutes. The more who are vaccinated, the more protected the unvaccinated. Even if you do have breakthrough disease if you are vaccinated, you're still less contagious. Although the best way to protect your child (unless medically advised otherwise for a teeny number of kids) is not to rely on herd immunity but to vaccinate.

Tabitha8 · 29/08/2012 20:40

So why are parents not told then when they have their babies?

kitsonkittykat · 29/08/2012 20:45

We don't vaccinate and I don't give a flying fuck what people think of that decision.

ElaineBenes · 30/08/2012 00:38

It is here in the us Tabitha. CDC recommendations

The uk seems to be a bit behind with vax, eg no chickenpox vax on the nhs. They probably want to pick their battles given the misinformation swirling about.

JoTheHot · 30/08/2012 11:54

You're not the only person who doesn't vaccinate and doesn't give a flying fuck about other people.

Sossiges · 30/08/2012 14:08

That's not what she said, don't be so inflammatory. She's entitled to vaccinate/not vaccinate as she chooses and it's none of your business what she does.

JoTheHot · 30/08/2012 14:56

Did I say that it is my business? She says no matter how well founded and articulated someone's view of her decision is, she's going to ignore it and hang the consequences. I'm entitled to post/not post as I choose, and a stupid post deserves a blunt reply.

ChunkyPickle · 30/08/2012 15:24

I was under the impression that shedding could only happen with live vaccines, and that DTaP isn't a live vaccine, so a vaccinated child couldn't pass it on from their vaccination

(although if they were one of the children the vaccine didn't work on, and they caught whooping cough then they obviously could pass it on)

I'm not even slightly medical, but I'm pretty sure that i read that on one of the many information leaflets I was handed before DS's jabs. (and it tallys with what I know about coldsore infection)