Reactions to MMR - how long do they last?

[MrsMoppetMama]

My DD (13 months) had her MMR 11 days ago, she had a bad reaction after about 3 days (high temp and trouble breathing) and we took her to urgent care center. Although this has now passed, she seems to be really out of sorts and has stopped sleeping through. Her normal routine was brilliant as she went down from about 7 - 7. Now she is waking every two hours and is very unhappy. Is this normal? is this because of her MMR or is it just a phase? She has also stopped taking her bottle before bed, is it likely that she has weaned herself? Help! It's been pretty easy going with her up to now so a bit stressed by all this.

A reaction can happen at any time. My dd2 reacted 24 hours after her MMR and ended up in hospital, eventually the doctor agreed that it was a reaction to the MMR.

Was it recorded as an adverse reaction Marne? Just interested as I know a couple of friends in similar situations who couldn't get it yellow carded- being able to fill out a yellow card yourself is a huge improvement to the system. Of course it would help if they would tell people about it

Saintly- i'm not sure if it was recorded (i should check really), i think a lot of doctors like to cover it up, my daughter has ASD, she reacted to both MMR's but the 2nd (the booster) put her in hospital, i didn't want her to have the booster as i was worried it could make her regress, the nurse kept phoning me and reasuring me that there was no link between MMR nad ASD and how most children dont react etc..etc..., i feel guilty for allowing her to have it.

"she had a bad reaction after about 3 days (high temp and trouble breathing) and we took her to urgent care center. Although this has now passed, she seems to be really out of sorts and has stopped sleeping through. Her normal routine was brilliant as she went down from about 7 - 7. Now she is waking every two hours and is very unhappy."

how is this just a phase of an excited toddler increasing her range of activities

bizarre

Well don't feel guilty, they probably scared you silly about not having it. I know five people with similar reactions (including hospital stays). In fact two of those had the same thing happen to two children at which stage they said no more (and they were told it was coincidence and nothing to do with the mmr and none of the instances were yellow carded).

You could yellow card it yourself on the link above if you want it recorded.

Actually six people - I was counting families not kids. Those are just RL people I have met - have heard of a lot more online.

hi saintly, sorry I didn't respond to your other links on the other thread, I "put it away" until having time to look at the graphs and then I forgot

Lol - don't worry, I find those questions really interesting.

I may well be bonkers, rather that that BAAAAAAA

i don't doubt your sanity numbertaker you seem very sensible to me

I thought this study was interesting (on the MMR) [a proper peer reviewed paper, not something bizarre from the crankosphere btw]

"A study was conducted on 1,162 identical and fraternal twins at 14 to 83 months of age, each receiving a placebo and then the vaccine, or vice versa, three weeks apart. The study population was followed for three weeks after each injection. No difference was found in reported minor reactions between vaccine and placebo recipients"

www.pediatricsdigest.mobi/content/106/5/e62.short

Of course, it's not that MMR reactions don't occur but, as parents, we're expecting them, so every little sniffle is considered a reaction - so in the end there's no difference in symptoms reported between non vaccinated and vaccinated twins!

Marne, you absolutely shouldn't feel guilty about giving your daughter the MMR. Based on the best scientific evidence you had no reason not to give the MMR.

The thing is, what you don't know is how your daughter may have reacted to measles itself. Unfortunately in the UK today, with MMR uptake the way it is, the possibility of contracting measles is not insignificant. If your daughter reacted to an attenuated virus so severely she had to be hospitalized, who knows what would have happened to her had she contracted the wild virus?

Thanks Elaine, i know your right. I dont know if dd2 had ASD before her first MMR, looking back at pictures and video's it seems that she didn't. I don't know if the MMR caused her ASD or if it triggered something off (made her regress). She reacts badly with most things, chicken px made her very porly as des most illness she picks up , thats just the way she is.

was it a true placebo?

I only ask because in two of the Cervarix safety trials they didn't use a true control so the resutls are untrustworthy

I mean, in most vaccine safety trials they use another vaccine or the other vaccine ingredients as a control rather than a true placebo

I dont' think people realise this

Marne - there's beginning to be a lot of research showing that the immune system in some cases of autism is dysfunctional. It's worth keeping an eye on the research if it interests you. There are a few different research groups in the states. And it can be worth contacting researchers directly or attending conferences. They'll say things that won't ever get published. For example at IMFAR a few years ago, one researcher working in this area was talking about triggers (to the dysfunctional immune system) and he said while he felt the most common trigger was a wild type virus of some sort at a critical age it could occasionally be that 'the dreaded vaccines' as he put it could be the trigger. That sort of comment will never get published and I doubt he'd even write it into his draft paper.

Ds1's regression (of speech, and perhaps more interestingly speech sounds) came after a natural viral infection (not one that is vaccinated against) and his paediatrician and neurologist have happily written that up into his notes as being the trigger for regression. Not sure whether that's helpful or not.

We have video pre- regression of him saying for example sssss (snake noises) qua-qua- (ducks) ka- (cat) (he was very young) and had a wide variety of other sounds meaning various proto words. I thought he could say ssss again now, but I asked him the other day and he couldn't. He definitely can't say 'kuh' we spent six months trying to teach him a couple of years ago. The video we have is on VHS - I was thinking the other day I should get it converted to digital really then compare speech sounds then with now. I am happy to accept that early words might have got lost as developmental changes early in the second year alter the way language is produced (something suggested to me a few years back). But loss of the fine motor control needed/ability to make specific sounds suggests brain damage to me.

Sorry the researcher was talking about triggers for regression (via having a dysfunctional immune system)

I have seen so many posts by people saying "my DD/DS had her/his jabs the other day and now she/he's vomiting, has diarrhea, has a high fever, is off their food, not sleeping, waking at night screaming, seems withdrawn" etc. and the pharmatrolls (love it!) always brush it off - "it's a phase, it's a coincidence, already had a virus infection which you didn't know about" - bollocks to that. How blind do you have to be?

Accuracy
You do know why in vaccine trials, a new vaccine is compared to the old one right? You realize that it is UNETHICAL to leave children exposed to the risks of disease when the existing vaccine is effective and safe? This is the same whenever you have an existing treatment, the new treatment always always tests against the existing one. Why is this a problem? What would be the point of testing a vaccine against a placebo when we know that the existing vaccine works but we want to see if a new one is better?

In the study I linked to, however, it was a true placebo since it was just a case of waiting 3 weeks to receive the vaccine if the placebo was received first. It wasn't a medical trial.

No-one is saying vaccine reactions can't and don't happen. But I do think this paper demonstrates that parents are subjective in how they perceive and report symptoms. I know there is a large faction who support the 'Mother knows best' idea, that's fine but it's not borne out in the scientific evidence.

sossiges - see, my husband developed a 40 degree fever, the highest he got in 20 years, totally out of the blue, 4 hours after a cancelled flu shot appointment.

How do they trial vaccines? Do they wait a certain number of months to see if any child catches the disease? Do they try to expose the child to the disease?
During vaccines trials, are all side effects noted? How many children would be involved in, say, a new MMR vaccine?
Are the parents told of the trial?

And you want me to trust these barstewards

www.telegraph.co.uk/science/science-news/9006614/GlaxoSmithKline-fined-over-trials-on-the-babies-of-Argentinian-poor.html

The truth is they test our vaccines on the third world poor, then we free ride off the back of them.

Disgusting, isn't it? How do they get away with it?

NB, article is in the Telegraph. Not the "crankosphere".

And how many other scandals have there been with other medications? Big pharma does bad things, it certainly could do with more regulation.

Vaccines are NO different to any other medication. I don't like my children taking ANY unnecessary medication, I always hold off on the antibiotics until I'm as sure as I can be that they are necessary.

By vaccinating them, I'm ensuring that the chances of them being hooked up to an IV on antibiotics or a whole bunch of other stuff is minimized as much as possible. On average, vaccinated children will require LESS medication that unvaccinated because they are healthier and have less infections.

You don't realize what a bonus your unvaccinated child is for the pharma industry.