Vaccinations and nursery schools

[Louise1010]

This is my first post so forgive me if I do anything wrong!

I am just beginning to look at nursery schools for my 15 month old son, and I am a bit surprised that they don't seem to care whether or not he has been vaccinated. I expected it to be a requirement.

It seems incredible to me that I have to provide evidence of my cat's jabs to the cattery but when it comes to children anything goes.

Has anyone come across a nursery school in the UK that does require it?

PubMed articles can be read for free elsewhere.

omsj.org/reports/tomljenovic%202011.pdf
The vaccines are as per the US schedule.

Who is right?

I would start by paying attention to anyone who produces some good evidence to suport their claims. Evidence can be examined and discussed, and can lead to a conclusion. Vague unsupported rumour and unsubstantiated concern leads nowhere.

bm, do you want to revise your earlier opinion "Piglet, I don't think she believes that it causes autism nor do I think she was saying that it causes Alzheimer's (which you accused her of earlier)."

Tabitha
The point mitoaction are making is the disease will do more harm than the vaccination.
And the point is made elsewhere that if for some reason ie a bad reaction in the past, the child md should still be protected from the disease by everyone around them being fully vaccinated to prevent the md child from getting the disease.

Why would Bumbley wish to revise her statement?

what's your position on Aluminium and Autism, then?

(p.s. note I did not ask for some links to documents written by other people)

By the way, just one more point, relating to Bruffin's link:
"Most MRLs contain some degree of uncertainty because of the lack of precise toxicological information on the people who might be most sensitive (e.g., infants, elderly, and nutritionally or immunologically compromised) to effects of hazardous substances."

No, they are not saying here whether or not the MRLs for aluminium are uncertain.
www.atsdr.cdc.gov/mrls/index.asp
I haven't yet found a link saying what the MRLs for aluminium are, in its various forms of entry to the human body.

My position on alu and autism? Openminded, as I've always been.

Tabitha, I fail to see how giving me links to papers on aluminium answers my question.

As it is quite some time ago now, here it is for a third time

If you're not trying to convince people that autism is a plausible risk associated with MMR, what other motive did you have for saying 'so many' instead of 'some' reported cases? It's rhetoric, and the only pupose I know of for rhetoric is to convince people of something.

You seem to find it much easier to play hunt the vaccine damage on google, than to answer simple questions about your motivation.

well that's odd

My position on Aluminium is openminded too. If I ever see any evidence, I'll give it consideration.

But if you've never seen any evidence, why do you keep posting about it; and why always on vaccination threads?

What's the MRL for water in its various forms of entry to the human body.

BTW, not all evidence is created equal. The study on al-autism really was a piece of garbage as I explained above. I don't know toxicology but I do know epidemiology and that 'research' was a joke. Seriously. Why didn't they control for any confounding variables (clue: because there wouldn't be an effect then)? Why didn't they look at endogeneity (clue: because there wouldn't be an effect then)? That was really bad epidemiological research. Really bad.

What I like to see is a group of experts on the various aspects of vaccine safety come together and decide what the weight of evidence is. This is what happens, internationally and nationally. I have no reason to doubt their findings - they know far more than I do.

Isn't that what the IOM did. I linked to the review on vaccine safety on the other thread.

Exactly Bruffin!

Piglet, why would i revise my statement? Where has Tabitha said Al causes autism or Alzheimer's?

Just to confirm, are people here arguing that there is no evidence that Al is toxic?

this from Science based medicine is interesting on scare mongering about toxins in vaccines. Please read the paragraphs about safety margins and dosages.

Of course there's evidence that Al is toxic. If you eat enough courgettes, they'd be toxic too.

There is no evidence that the dose of Al in a vaccine is toxic.

The dose makes the poison, bumbley

bm
"Just to confirm, are people here arguing that there is no evidence that Al is toxic?"

I haven't heard that argument.

I have however heard a suggestion that maybe aluminium might cause Autism. Similarly that maybe turnips might cause lung cancer. However I haven't seen any good evidence to suggest that either is true. Have you?

The list of things that are toxic is virtually endless.

It includes salt. Is a saline infusion therefore poisonous? Or a life saver?

The dose makes the poison.

thanks, seeker, a very interesting and informative article.

It's terrible how some of those ant-vaxxers use lies, distortion, ignorance and innuendo to try to create a climate of fear and baseless unease.

Seeker, PJ may find it interesting what your link said about Al and Alzheimer's:

"At present the best answer we have is that aluminum probably does not cause AD but appears to be playing some role, perhaps influencing severity."

EB, do you think it is only the dose or do you think how the dose is given may possibly make a difference?

PJ, who on this thread has said that Al causes autism? I haven't looked into it that much but I'm not arrogant enough to say that it could never trigger autism in any child ever if it hasn't really been examined that thoroughly.

bm

Is that a "no" to my question? It does seem to be.

Paracetamol. That's toxic.

Oh, vitamin A. Eat a polar bear's liver and you die of vitamin A poisoning. (strange but true)!

There is some suggestion that ingesting Al over a lifetime may influence th severity of altzheimer's. Is that relvant to this discussion?

It's an ' I don't know' Piglet because I haven't looked into it. You haven't answered my question yet - who has said that MMR causes autism (or alzheimer's for that matter or have you accepted that Tab didn't say that now?)

So what did you make about the comment in seeker's article about Al and Alzheimer's?

seeker, I think it's the liver of any carnivore that gives you toxic levels of Vitamin A. I read some really interesting articles about it a while ago.