Very Very anxious about mmr

[ariane5]

My 3 dcs (10,5 and 2) have had all their jabs except mmr. When dd1 was little I made the decision not to have it done as read so much about it that scared me and I couldn't bear to give her something that could potentially make her ill.

I know that the mmr is now supposedly safe and the doctor who caused the initial worry struck off but I cannot get out of my head what I read.My new gp has been on and on at me for a good 18months to get dcs vaccinated with mmr and I have cancelled numerous appts-now EVERYTIME I go to gp they spend at least 15 minutes asking me to have mmr-they even said last week that any one of measles/mumps/rubella could be fatal to my children and were quite aggressive in getting this point across-not the best idea as Iam 7 months pg, terribly hormonal and worried about the jab anyway without feeling like my children could be struck down at any time and be seriously ill-it doesn't help me make a decision when they are being so pushy.

ds and dd2 have severe egg allergy too but they have said they would be fine to have it done at gp surgery and would not have a reaction.

I feel torn-if i do it I will be terrified and not sleep for a good 3 weeks untill all3 components of the jab have worked in case of a severe reaction and if i don't I will be panicking that they will catch measles/mumps/rubella.

All 3 have other health issues-a genetic disorder affecting connective tissue(eds) dd1 has a chest prob(pectus excavatum) causing reduced lung capacity and ds and dd2 severe allergies and a resulting poor diet.All 3 catch EVERYTHING going and are unwell a great deal and the gp has mentioned that their immune systems are not great and measles etc could be very bad for them.

I have tried everything to come to a decision but the more I read the more confused and upset Iam not knowing what to do and I feel so pushed by the gp and every dr i see at the surgery.

I really do not know what to do.

so the answer is yes he did warn of the MMR, he did call for a suspension of the vaccine, he did say he thought singles might be safer, and the combination vaccine more dangerous and therefore, at this press conference, he did kick loose the media sh*tstorm about MMR and autism.

Cochrane says (now www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22336803 and previously www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16235361)

Exposure to the MMR vaccine was unlikely to be associated with autism, asthma, leukaemia, hay fever, type 1 diabetes, gait disturbance, Crohn's disease, demyelinating diseases, bacterial or viral infections.

No agenda Leonie? Poppycock.

As for hunting for other conspiracy theory posts I would rather talk to the undead Elvis who lives next door.

For what its worth Catherina there have been quite alot of adverse reactions to the MMR since 1989 in the United States which have been reported - 59520 -presumably not all were reported.

I'd be interested to know how the 7% number was arrived upon.

This is from the National Vaccine Information Centre - Medalert website:

"Since 1990, the U.S. Government has collected reports of adverse health events that follow the administration of vaccinations. This database, called the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) is available for anyone to search or download."

Here's the link. medalerts.org/vaersdb/findfield.php?EVENTS=on&PAGENO=2&PERPAGE=10&ESORT=NONE&REVERSESORT=&VAX=%28MMR%29

The inability for scientists to do research without suffering censorship, opprobrium and career destruction has to be one of the most important underlying issues to do with Wakefield et al. The hysteria about the Lancet paper and the wholesale dismissal of the parent's narrative about what happened to their children is unconscionable. The same logic about herd immunity is reminiscent of the eugenics debates at the turn of the 20th century. "Improving the stock - the sacrifice of the few for the many". We should be able to do better today. Our scientists are so much more advanced.

"Bad science" how? For listening to parents. Taking their children's histories and recounting them in a case series about bowel disease among children with autism? If there is justice then the High Court will dismiss the conclusions of the GMC as regards John Walker Smith, conclusions their own QC felt were inadequately explained.

My children were vaccinated with the MMR. They were safe. All doctors would want to vaccinate children when they are healthy - hence the admonition not to vaccinate when you are unwell or have a cold. The OP has real concerns about her and her children's immune system. There are many many GPs who would appreciate this circumstance and try to find the right course of action for her children based on their specific health histories.

I have no doubt Doctors want to help their patients. I want scientists to do research unfettered by the possibility it won't meet with the approval of either the government, established wisdom, or commercial wisdom.

Just a quick pop in - busy day!

Catherina, I can't see anywhere in your quotes that Wakefield says "MMR causes autism". Also, I think you should post the questions he was asked as well as the responses so that people can read them in context.

I think he was concerned about what they had found and wanted to continue the research. Recommending the single vaccine that was still available at that point (and had nothing to do with him btw before someone starts talking about coi) made sense. You have to remember that there had been another MMR scare just a few years before with the MMRI that had been introduced in the UK despite safety concerns. The triple vaccine didn't exactly have a good track record at that point!

to put you straight

I must have missed that :o

Bumbley

Catherina, I can't see anywhere in your quotes that Wakefield says "MMR causes autism".

Actually, he could not have said it any more obvious than he did, IMO, and certainly the media got what he meant and ran with it (did I see a "correction" from Wakefield? Don't think I did...).

For what its worth Catherina there have been quite alot of adverse reactions to the MMR since 1989 in the United States which have been reported - 59520 -presumably not all were reported.

That would be one adverse reaction in every 2.2 million MMRs given - sounds pretty safe to me...

Selective cut and pasting

you mean as you do when you only post the bit about inadequate studies, but ignore the bit about the unlikely connection between MMR and teh ebils is it usually blamed for?

It really would help you to read his book

I doubt that, since I would not believe a word he says (based on bit of his I did read or hear, double checked and found to be big fat lies very poorly researched)

just please get vaccinated against measles.... MMR or single, who cares to be honest..... my childhood best friend died aged 8 from encephalitis as a complication of measles

ariane I was given my MMR in a children's hospital when I was about 14 due to the egg component, and I'd only ever had one bad reaction to it (it was very bad though). I think to be honest I'd grown out of it by then (have no problems now) but they would still rather be safe than sorry. I was kept in afterwards for about 6 hours I think, just to be on the safe side.

If you decide you do want to have it done, ask if you can have it done at a hospital, if it would make you feel happier.

so sorry BTW1 :(

Thank you CatherinaJTV - I just feel so strongly about it when people say, "well they are only childhood diseases......." not realising that there are dangers for some, and that the lack of "herd immunity" may cause others to suffer.

Unless your child is one of the 59520. (By the way are you suggesting that there have been 120 billion MMR vaccines given since 1989! (2.2M x 60,000) in the United States?? The 2009 census counts 74.1m chuldren under 18 - some quick maths tells us that 148.2m vaccinations would have given them 100% coverage - 1st and booster. Unless I'm approximating the maths wrong you have calculated this incorrectly. Catastrophically incorrectly - I guess to try and prove a fallacious point. Maybe I have got this maths wrong...please correct me if I do. I believe you are a scientist.)

Maths aside it does help underline my point. The inflating of statistics about measles deaths creates fear but that despair is real for the two or now three people that have died from the measles over the past decade - Look at the HPA numbers for the exact number and for those whose children have suffered adverse effects but not mortality from the disease. Suggesting all children will suffer an adverse reaction to the MMR is also fear mongering. For the parents who believe that there may be a temporal connection to the vaccine to be disregarded as hysterical when there have been quite a few adverse reactions is both insensitive and at odds with the GMC's "Duties of a Doctor". Here it is Caterina:

www.patient.co.uk/doctor/Ideals-and-the-Hippocratic-Oath.htm

To criticise either doctors or parents for being cautious before taking a decision seems insensitive particularly in light of the information available.

Oh drat, I was three orders of magnitude off, how embarrassing. Not on purpose, just impaired by a bad cold and teary eyes.

Leonie - you will think of me what you will - I don't understand why my humble little blog where I write a handful of posts a year is such a threat to you, but if you suspect an agenda behind that, then there cannot be any pleasing you really.

Thereitis - around 500 kids per year died of measles alone before the intro of the MCV in the US, so about 11'000 deaths from measles have been prevented since 1989 in the US by vaccinating with MMR.

VAERS shows 304 deaths after MMR since its inception, this includes any report - including those with clear other causes of death (like streptococcal sepsis). And I do not want to weigh those children (the one who died after vaccines vs the ones that would have died due to measles) against each other (should not with my lack of maths skills), but it is totally unambiguous IMO, also looking at the VAERS reports, that MMR saves lives and quality of lives.