Very Very anxious about mmr

[ariane5]

My 3 dcs (10,5 and 2) have had all their jabs except mmr. When dd1 was little I made the decision not to have it done as read so much about it that scared me and I couldn't bear to give her something that could potentially make her ill.

I know that the mmr is now supposedly safe and the doctor who caused the initial worry struck off but I cannot get out of my head what I read.My new gp has been on and on at me for a good 18months to get dcs vaccinated with mmr and I have cancelled numerous appts-now EVERYTIME I go to gp they spend at least 15 minutes asking me to have mmr-they even said last week that any one of measles/mumps/rubella could be fatal to my children and were quite aggressive in getting this point across-not the best idea as Iam 7 months pg, terribly hormonal and worried about the jab anyway without feeling like my children could be struck down at any time and be seriously ill-it doesn't help me make a decision when they are being so pushy.

ds and dd2 have severe egg allergy too but they have said they would be fine to have it done at gp surgery and would not have a reaction.

I feel torn-if i do it I will be terrified and not sleep for a good 3 weeks untill all3 components of the jab have worked in case of a severe reaction and if i don't I will be panicking that they will catch measles/mumps/rubella.

All 3 have other health issues-a genetic disorder affecting connective tissue(eds) dd1 has a chest prob(pectus excavatum) causing reduced lung capacity and ds and dd2 severe allergies and a resulting poor diet.All 3 catch EVERYTHING going and are unwell a great deal and the gp has mentioned that their immune systems are not great and measles etc could be very bad for them.

I have tried everything to come to a decision but the more I read the more confused and upset Iam not knowing what to do and I feel so pushed by the gp and every dr i see at the surgery.

I really do not know what to do.

Your children are part of that 'herd' aren't they? If they are then why are you worried about them being at risk?

Herd immunity relies upon a high % of uptake. Christ alive if you're going to refuse vaccines at least understand how they work.

No, bub...we live in a vacuum.

And Leonie....my children are very precious, aren't yours?

Posie, You do realise that there are outbreaks of disease in populations with over 99% vaccination coverage don't you? Those outbreaks often involve a higher percentage of the unvaccinated - the very group that this 'herd immunity' is supposed to protect. Are your children part of that herd or not btw. Y haven't answered. If they are, I'm not really sure about why you think your children are at risk. Unless you think that it is only the 'herd' that protects them rather than the vaccine itself. I'm actually starting to wonder if you actually understand how vaccines are supposed to work.

Posie-of course you can remind me as many times as you like about how Iam putting your children at risk, but that does not help me make a decision and that was all I asked for-help and advice in making what I find to be a very hard decision.

I do think your 'shame on you' comment was a bit uncalled for-shame on me for what? trying to make a decision

Vaccines don't have a 100% effective rate
Not all children who are vaccinated will be immune
Not all children can be vaccinated for various reasons

If you have got a critical mass of people vaccinated, then it doesn't matter that for some it hasn't worked, and some can't be vaccinated, as the number of people who are immune means that the disease cannot get hold in the community, outbreaks don't happen.

Drop below the critical mass and people for whom it hasn't worked, people who can't be vaccinated and vulnerable groups like babies who are not old enough to be vaccinated are at risk.

In many areas in the UK the critical mass has not been reached and so there is risk of outbreak - and risk to people who are vaccinated but it hasn't worked (a low % of those vaccinated), people who can't be vaccinated, babies etc.

I don't understand why people are implying that vaccines must be 100% effective and if they aren't then they are crap vaccines. And being quite aggressive about it

Personally I know that uptake in my area is low and there have been outbreaks and when my children were under 13 months I was pretty nervous about them getting measles.

Ariane could you afford to pay for individual vaccines, unavailability of mumps notwithstanding?

What does your DP think BTW?

99% vaccinated have outbreaks yet these outbreaks are with higher %s of unvaccinated? That doesn't make any sense......bum

My mum spent years working in the vaccination ward of a big hospital. NONE of the migrants coming from third world countries ever questioned the efficiency/purpose of injections. They were so grateful to have them for free, having witnessed the damage done by preventable diseases.
Inoculations save lives every day. I find it baffling how people question proven science. But hey, each to their own, if you think you know best than the overwhelming majority of medical professionals don't do it.
Better rely on studies found on google than on trained doctors...

Ariane, don't take offense, honestly. I don't think she is particularly well informed and is just spouting stuff that she has been told without really understanding it. She probably hasn't vaccinated against CP so you could guilt trip her about that if you like

Posie, if you want to pontificate on subjects such as vaccination, it would be wise to at least try to sound as though you know something about it.

you have posted a load of rubbish on this thread, and shoudl be ashamed.

OP - you need to read as much as you can, evaluate it, and come to a conclusion that is comfortable for you and your family. n one here can tell you what to do, or what you should do. it is a decision for you (and your dh/dp) alone.

there are risks either way (NO vaccine is 100% safe, and there are always risks with vaccination), and you need to decide what is the route you are most comfortable with right now.

DP desperate for them to all be vaccinated with mmr.

Financially it would be a struggle with 3 dcs and a fourth due in april but I would consider it .

financially for single vaccines

I don't know why everyone's having a right old laugh about chicken pox. DD2 was really ill when she had it. Hilarious.

Do some people think childhood illnesses are funny? I don't really understand that. Some of them are a nuisance, some of them are scary, some of them can have serious consequences including death. I don't see it as a laughing matter.

Hmmm.....what don't I get? In order for a vaccination to be effective a high percentage of children have to have it.

SQ, there are outbreaks where the vaccination coverage is over the threshold that you mentioned. The herd immunity theory is a bit wobbly tbh. Especially considering that some of these vaccines have shown that they don't provide lifelong protection so there is a high percentage of adults/older children who are non-immune in the community.

Posie, I'm not sure why you don't understand. 99% of the population is vaccinated. There is an outbreak and a higher percentage of the people who are affected in that outbreak are those who are not vaccinated compared to those who have been vaccinated (although some vaccinated people will also contract the disease because vaccines aren't 100% effective)

ariane5 Why don't you write down all your specific concerns and questions you want to ask about the MMR vaccine? Take the list the next time you go to the doctor. Then rather than having a futile time-wasting argument with the docs and nurses, you can ask your specific questions and get specific answers. Having a pen and paper might make them less likely to brush you off and then you'll have answers in black and white to reassure you.

what I don't see as a laughing matter is:

pushing mumps into an adult population (outbreaks of mumps are rife at universities now - pretty much guaranteed that each year there will be widespread mumps amongst young adults) - it is much more serious for adults.

same for chicken pox - there is evidence to show the immunity from that wears off after a relatively short period of time - anyone bother to check immunity, or get boosters? no, not many. so again, being pushed into an adult population. where it is more serious.

anyone here with a teenage daughter who had the mmr? had her rubella immunity checked? probably not would be the answer, yet no one knows how long that immunity will last - no follow ups done. (judging by the effectiveness of the mumps component, probably not very long)

in fact - anyone here actually check their immune status at all? or just believe the hype that the docs peddle re: vaccine effectiveness?

my child caught rubella from a vaccinated child - because the mother didn't bother to check what her child was suffering from. contact was at a toddler group, with other pregnant mums there - now that is irresponsible.

my cousin caught measles, yet the doctor declined to swab test for it, as he had been vaccinated . instead, he had a 'measles like virus'. double

carry on believing all the hhype as long as you like, but don't call people who question it irresponsible, or tell them they 'should' toe the line and get their child vaccinated. vaccination is a personal decision, and it is up to the individual whether they do so or not.

Where has that happened? Were the outbreaks amongst groups within vaccinated communities with lower uptake than the average? I would be interested to see some links.

We have had a few outbreaks and I know the rate is low here.

Can you please site your examples of high, ie 99%, vaccinated populations where there have been outbreaks. Bumb.

I do think though, that if you quote something you should quote the whole thing, not just the really scary sounding parts. I am not putting my opinion here either way, just referring to a post above with information taken from the WHO, whilst they do state the 18 deaths an hour, the next statement says this

More than 95% of measles deaths occur in low-income countries with weak health infrastructures.

I just don't think it's fair to quote little bits here and there - on either side of the fence.