To not let dd have the HVP vaccination?

[DogGoneMad]

Dh and I really disagree on this.

well, there you go

I wonder what that is supposed to mean though?

There were some scandals about poor screening facilities giving false positives and negatives iirc.

I understand people's concerns about vaccinations, I really do and I respect them.

BUT I cannot help but look at the alternatives from my admittedly biased point of view.

I would encourage parents to let their children have the vaccination.

Anything that cut the risk of your child getting cancer is worth trying.
But people must do what they think is right.

Not the most helpful of posts I realise

very helpful, I think. I think it is massively important to remember what the stakes are here and what we are all ultimately trying to prevent.

Thank you for sharing your experiences.

I see risks elsewhere though, in addition.

Actually I realise I don't know what to say, the awfulness of you losing your daughter has me rather stumped. It doesn't change my mind about the way ahead for us because I balance the risks in a different way and I see risk to my daughter's health in the vaccination. But you losing your daughter, I don't know, your post has floored me a little. You are right, we all do what we think is right for us and because we all fear what has happened to your family.

What is helpful is what makes us realise excatly what's important for us and why we're making these decisions and why they're so incredibly painful, and why we're fortunate to have these decisions to make. Yes, it's helpful.

I think what's at issue is the nature of cancer: what causes cancer? What is cancer? How can an individual prevent cancer?

To me, the best way to protect yourself from cancer is to build on your body's own defences, and not weaken your body. That way, any cancer cells which start to form are defeated by the body's own natural defences. I know that vaccines are claimed to strengthen the body's natural immune system, but I'm not convinced that that is the case.

Sorry to hear about your daughter MrsDevere. I've read your posts about her before. Such a dreadful loss for you and your family.

Very interesting about gardasil/cevarix on their own actually leading to an increased incidence of CC. I can understand why if it means that false reassurance from the vaccine results in people not having regular screening. The trials that have been done to test effectiveness of the vaccine have involved women having regular smears. In the general population people are probably more complacent so it will be interesting to see if the vaccine does actually have the expected impact or if the 'vaccine prevented cases' will be replaced by cases caused by the other strains due to people missing their smear tests because they (incorrectly) think they are completely protected against CC . It believe that effect is currently being studied - it was mentioned on the NHS website.

Lemon balm, it's an interesting point because one of the known risk factors for CC is a weakened immune system and things that suppress the immune system eg. Smoking and 90% of cases of HPV will be fought off by the body without causing any problems.

Well, that is my point. I would be aiming for a strong body which can fight off HPV infections, as it would fight off the common cold, or the flu.

To explain about the change to the age at starting screening.
"Blueberties Sat 24-Sep-11 21:44:36
There were some scandals about poor screening facilities giving false positives and negatives iirc."
This wasn't the reason.
There are two main reasons:

1. Because the physiological changes in the developing body means that the cervical cells in younger women are very active.

Abnormal cells are also very active. It can be rather difficult to tell the different and the NHS CSP was concerned that this was leading to an increase in young women having treatment. The treatment although safe and well tolerated has been reported to have a small association with fertility problems. The view was taken that as cervical abnormalities tend to develop very slowly (which is why it's suitable for screening) it was better to start screening slightly later to avoid possibly overtreating with possibly fertility affecting treatment in an age group who are likely to not have completed their family.

1. If you look up the ARTISTIC trial data you can see that lots of young women (17ish) get transient HPV infections. Most of them resolve on their own. If you screen at this time then women can get into a cycle of abnormal tests and repeat screenings for minor abnormalities (see 1).

TruthSweet: you mention your test results had gone from severe dyskaryosis to pre-cancer stage 2 and 3.
Dyskaryosis is the term used for cell changes by cytologists (the screening lab). Cervical Intrapeithelial Neoplasia (CIN i.e. precancerous changes) is the term used by histologists (the lab which looks at tissue samples). CIN2-3 is roughly the same as severe dyskaryosis. So it sounds to me like it's stayed the same rather than progressed.

I am a tentative vaccinator, DD had single jabs (and therefore sadly not protected from mumps which bothers me) and I have had her done (well the 1st of 3)

Cervical cancer is a secretive hidden cancer,by the time it's found it can be too late. That's scarier than mumps and measles etc

ALso, sexual contact is frightening. My dd may only ever sleep with 1 boy, he might have slept with 1 girl, who slept with 2 boys who slept with.... and that one sexual encounter can pass on a disease/virus

Since it started here, there haven't been very many problems that I have heard of, other than "local" reactions

Thanks for clarifying that Bela. I,personally, would rather be monitored from an early age for cell changes that may repair themselves and turn out to be nothing rather than assume that they won't turn into anything because I'm under 25. The cell changes that I required treatment for happened in my early 20s and other people have posted similar stories, some with tragic consequences.

"Cervical cancer is a secretive hidden cancer,by the time it's found it can be too late. "

That is why screening is so important even if you have been vaccinated.

bumbleymummy: this is generally the problem with discussing anything health and population related. Screening and vaccination are similar issues, they are studied, constructed, organised and delivered on benefits for the population considered at risk. They can't really be organised on the basis of the smaller numbers outside the normal distribution for that disease because then the risks can outweigh the benefits. Plus (and yes this is about money because there isn't an infinite pot of it) they have to be also done on what's cost effective. This is a difficult message if you, or a loved one are affected by the disease in question.

I write as someone who works in screening but also had treatment for possible cervical cancer (and was lucky it wasn't) so I hope that I do see some of both sides of the argument.

HPV vaccination in the long run will make screening more difficult for those who work in it. This is because the number of abnormal results will drop (good news for the women) but it means we will see lots more normal tests. The "needle in a haystack" effect which is seen with airport luggage screening will mean that there will probably be changes such as HPV primary screening with cytology ("smear test") as a triage if it's High Risk HPV positive.
I don't have any specific knowledge of whether this will definitely happen and when but it is something anyone working in a screening lab is aware of.

I was a couple of years too late for the vaccine. I will have been sexually active for nine years by the time I can have a smear at 25. There's a family history of cervical cancer. I have PCOS with accompanying erratic bleeding, pains etc. which could mask symptoms.

WTF am I supposed to do? There must be lots of others in the same situation, there was a gap of at least a few years between raising the age to 25 and introducing the vaccine.

Bela, I don't suppose you could link to that Artistic trial data? I'm interested in the abnormalities resolving on their own. It's in line with my thinking that it's better to have a strong body which deals with the effects of an infection - and 17-year-olds would indeed have strong, healthy bodies, one would hope - than to attempt to prevent any infection.

Is there a known, finite number of HPV strains? Or is it similar to the common cold or flu, where the strains change all the time?

Bella thanks, I knew I was on dodgy ground there, also interesting to hear from someone with your professional experience. I don't think you said what your opinion is of brining forward screening, although you explained the problem with it. Do you have an opinion on that.

Have just re-read my last post, and the first para should end "through vaccination".

Can I just point out that some of tge evidence bb and bm have posted is 2 years out of date. Diane harpers interview was in 2009 prior to the release of further evidence
The most up to date info is linked on my previous thread and was released this year

Can you detail if and how it undermines Ms Harper's concerns? Because I don't believe it does.

I've jumped from page 1 to 16 so forgive me, but I'm 17 years old, I've had the jab and I'm ok!

Pims, can you point out what evidence I have posted that is out of date? I think you making yet another false accusation. Please stop being misleading - the information I have posted is up to date and comes from reliable sources such as the NHS, Macmillan and Cancer Research UK.

The info posted by bb from dr harpers interview is out of date
I find you both difficult to differentiate between

BB, it addresses some of her initial statements and questions.
As the conclusion summarises
conclusion
Prophylactic HPV vaccines are safe, well tolerated, and highly efficacious in preventing persistent infections and cervical diseases associated with vaccine-HPV types among young females.

Some of her research was included in the meta analysis

For the record I find it quite interesting that you think only BM has posted good info. I think a lot of posters have made some diverse and valid contributions, including me