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Original poster

Alcoholic and breastfeeding

95 replies

Wishtoaskaquestion · 16/11/2005 22:39

I am a regular but wish to remain annoynomous for this.

Family member is an alcoholic, received treatment, had stopped drinking became pregnant delivered a delighful baby about 6 weeks ago.

It is now clear she is drinking again but continues to breastfeed. Baby has very loose, very frequent stools but is gaining weight slowly - how much harm is she doing by continuing this farce and continuing to feed. Reference sites would be very helpful if anyone has them.

OP posts:
essbee · 16/11/2005 23:12

Message withdrawn

handlemecarefully · 16/11/2005 23:14

absolutely - thank God you are looking out for them wishingtoaskaquestion

swings · 16/11/2005 23:15

My father was an alcoholic. He once told me at his worst he drank a litre of gin a day. He also worked in London as a barrister and nobody, colleagues and clients, suspected a thing. They were utterly horrified when he announced his joining AA.

Just pointing that out to say if you're 'hardened' you don't ever 'seem' drunk and you're clever.

What I don't understand in this case is that the husband MUST suspect if he's a health professional - we all knew my dad was drinking even though he was secretive and careful. And if she's a health professional surely she knows how dire it is to be doing this and b/f?

edam · 16/11/2005 23:15

I've done a quick search of the online medical journal referencing system for you and can't drum up anything that specifically addresses your question. No-one seems to have studied alcoholism in breastfeeding rather than in pregnancy (except in rats, where alcohol reduced the nutrient content of milk). You need to hit the phones and talk to all the obvious organisations who may be able to point you in the direction of researchers in this area.

RainbowWalker · 16/11/2005 23:22

Agree with you swings, she must be aware how terrible it is to be drinking and b/feeding but if it's linked to depression she's bound to be in a downward spiral that she'll only get out of with professional help. Also the baby may now have a dependency on the drink. I'd be interested to know how sleepy the baby is??

My neighbour was depressed in an unhappy marriage and couldn't care less about her dd. And she had told me that having her was a mistake... she had her to cement relationship with her 2nd dh after 1st dh left her because of the drinking.

edam · 16/11/2005 23:22

See hmc has posted some great links while I was searching - the sites I was using reference research studies. And it doesn't look as if much serious research has been carried out specifically on lactation rather than pregnancy.

Original poster
Wishtoaskaquestion · 16/11/2005 23:26

RW - a sad situation but please don't beat yourself up with 'if and buts'. We all do what we can when we can, nobody ask anything else. I Have no idea what to do TBH. I may call my HVs tomorrow and ask for advise.

Swings - I can only agree with what you say. I don't understand either. I come from a somewhat different, working class but heavy drinking background and there was no hiding for anyone there who had a problem. It was all out in the open - not wishing to cause offence here - but even first time around it was all treated softly, softly like nobody would guess and the family line was act dumb. I discussed the previous situation with my mum who was dumbfounded by the real 'secrecy and pretence' attached to the whole thing.

Anyway - Edam thank you. I had searched and found nothing damming/conclusive to support my stance of 'this just can't be right'

OP posts:
Original poster
Wishtoaskaquestion · 16/11/2005 23:29

And please excuse my double standards but I am half-way down a nice bottle of pinotage which is not doing my spelling or grammar any help.

OP posts:
RainbowWalker · 16/11/2005 23:32

you're excused!

Speaking with HV sounds like a good first step.

Good luck.

x

swings · 16/11/2005 23:36

You know what, RW, having lived with alcoholism I don't think you could've helped your neighbour. I mean, you never know, especially if you were close. But I think the alcoholic has to make the biggest leap and they are so resistant to help or even admitting there's a real problem.

Wishtoask - even if she's depressed and in some kind of 'denial' what about her partner? And why can't she not b/f? At least the baby would be safe nutrition-wise. Although her potential inability to look after it at all is really worrying. How long COULD this go on? Are you sure that it's regularly the amount you suspect?

gotta turn in now, will check this one again in the morning. Good luck. You're being fantastic to face this one.

swings · 16/11/2005 23:37

Wish, I'm also just finishing my 3rd bottle of beer ...

sleep well!

RainbowWalker · 16/11/2005 23:42

Thanks swings - I know you're right - but it's been a heartbreaking year spending so much time with a 10 (now 11) year old girl who's lost her mum and can't talk to her dad and 2 teenage brothers...

I help her now with "girl" issues and hope in some small way it'll have a positive effect on her self esteem. But I know you're right there was little I could practically do for her mum.

bobbybob · 16/11/2005 23:54

I wonder if it's more harmful to breastfeed in this state or make up bottles in this state? I agree with however said that it's more of a worry that she is looking after a baby than how the baby is fed.

Original poster
Wishtoaskaquestion · 17/11/2005 00:14

bb - you are right the intrinsic issues of looking after a baby are so important and probably more so than the impact of b/f and drinking. I however instinctivly (sp) feel that boozing and feeding can't be good. I believe it must have an impact on a baby when heavy drinking can have such an impact on an adult. Empirical/study based evidence will be difficult to source due to the issues of appropriate study members/control groups etc. However what had been researched to date suggests that geavy drinking impacts on the development of a year old baby. Course that may be due to the level of care provided rather than the level of milk in the breastmilk but how do we know? Also the details of these studies provide no information on the subjects so for example would an alcoholic who looked after their baby for 8 hours a day have the same impact as one who is the sole parent.

I believe that bf and drinking excessively can only have a negative impact - by whatever means.

BTW formula feeds can be prepared and given by a third party or poured from a cartoon into a pre-sterilised bottle so the care-giving dangers of formula feeding are surely reduced whoever does the job so to speak.

OP posts:
Original poster
Wishtoaskaquestion · 17/11/2005 00:18

My ability to type is now dreadful, indicating that my bottle of pinotage is finished so I shall retreat to bed. Many thanks for everyone's help.

OP posts:
NotQuiteCockney · 17/11/2005 07:20

I'm sure this level of drinking with breastfeeding can't be good - I expect tiktok, mears, or pupuce would have a firmer view.

I don't think her drinking is a great idea. That being said, serious alcoholics are often more functional drunk than sober - their bodies are adapted to coping half-pickled. She is probably taking better care of her baby, drunk, than she would if she suddenly were to stop drinking. (Which is what she should do!)

I'm also more than a bit nervous about the reference to her car? Someone who drinks this much should not be driving, drunk or sober.

ggglimpopo · 17/11/2005 08:40

Message withdrawn

frannyandzooey · 17/11/2005 08:50

I must be a mean old cow, but I don't understand why you are pussy-footing around. I would be on the phone to social services, if she was not facing up to the problem and trying to get help immediately. I think everyone is being ultra reasonable because it's a socially acceptable drug - you wouldn't tolerate this if she was using heroin.

I find it nearly impossible to have sympathy for the mother, from what we have been told here. She's an educated, well-off woman who has chosen to have a child, and is utterly failing to look after it, and is instead causing deliberate harm. I know alcoholism is no joke, I have recovered from a drink problem myself, but we all have choices and there is no way on earth I would have dragged a child into the mess that was my life while I was drinking.

I do have lots of sympathy for you, Wishtoask; it's a horrible situation, but you must act - and fast!

ruty · 17/11/2005 09:07

agree this woman is damaging her child. AS someone who has had a child with gut problems, the baby's stools you describe shows that it has having real problems. Not good.

Pennies · 17/11/2005 09:08

I think it might be worth talking to her DH again and really spelling it out - present him with the evidence that you have of her drinking (even if it is just your observations of her behaviour) and also the info given here about the effect of alcohol on the baby. It sounds to me like he is in denial about even the possibility of this being the case and he needs to face the fact that it could be happening again, although now with even greater ramifications.

If he doesn't respond then go to Health Visitor or Social Services.

What a truly horrible situation for all involved. I feel for you all. Hope she gets the help she needs.

Original poster
wishtoaskaquestion · 17/11/2005 09:50

ggg - many thanks for you very detailed and very helpful response - a concise summary of what I had gleaned myself from trawling about.
She is not drinking openly and given who she is (was) as a person and professionally there would be a number of very raised eyebrows if she chose not to bf.

I know it is irrational but this aspect makes me furious - yes I understand that at this point in her life (for what ever reason) she can't stop drinking. She could however come up with some spurious reason to NOT bf and at least deal with that aspect easily. I have an inkling that she actually bottle feeds when no one else is around which indicates she is well aware of the issues attached.

franny - I can understand you point of view re: hesitation and there will be action on my part today. I have cleared my diary from 11am and will start the ball rolling. I find the rest of your post very judgemental however (IRO of the person I am concerned about not me I should add). I firmly believe that calling Social Services would be a disaster and not provide an long-term solution. In fact I doubt if they would be able to act in the short-term at all.

She appears to be funtioning well and as I belive with all alcoholics you would be hard pushed to notice if you didn't know. It is the secretive behaviours that give her away, she is not rolling about drunk. And is more than capable of providing the day-to-day care required by a 6 week old baby. I do appreciate that will not always be the case. A using heroin addict would be in a different place I believe.

Anyway I have a meeting at 10 which I must attend and then I will take the bull by the horns. Thanks for you advice and support.

Ruty your observations on the stools is also super helpful. It demonstrates to me at least that an unacceptable amount of alcohol is passing over.

OP posts:
Marina · 17/11/2005 09:58

Just seen this wtaq, you've had such good advice here but I just wanted to wish you luck with getting some help for this woman and her baby. I guess the husband must just be in denial, something not even senior health professionals are immune to
This is such a sad tale, she is very lucky to have a brave family member ready to tackle such a difficult situation.
Can you let us know how you get on, for the baby and the mum's sake?

hunkermunker · 17/11/2005 10:05

Good luck with today, WTAAQ - will be thinking of you.

ggglimpopo · 17/11/2005 10:12

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ggglimpopo · 17/11/2005 10:15

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