Would you avoid places that are now reform?

[TinaMariah]

Lots of people who live near reform cities posting online stating they will boycott. Many are black or brown and are concerned about the levels of racism they've experienced in the last few weeks, and are stating they will avoid. Many calling for annual events to be held elsewhere. Anyone have any thoughts on this? I'm definitely concerned as a black woman who has experienced racist abuse twice in the last two weeks, one where I was told 'farage would kick get rid of yas' (this was whilst watching the football). I'm definitely worried.

Except Brighton- not exactly deprived!

That's not actually engaging with the issue tho is it? That's insulting a whole area of already poor, vulnerable people based on what the Reform members did and the OP said.

That's the logical equivalent of saying, "Rothschild Bank brokered the treaty of versailles, therefore let's make scapegoats out of all jewish people in germany."

That goes without saying. What is not OK is the open racist abuse, no-one should be subjected to that.

Sure and there's laws to deal with that. But there's a vast gap between sying no one should be subject to racist abuse and I must avoid all people who voted Reform because they're all tainted by evil and might hurt me.

How can one tell id someone's voted Reform anyway? Pehaps there should be some visible marker...an armband with a symbol, maybe?

Op I’m sorry you’ve experienced racial abuse, it’s not acceptable and must not be tolerated.
I myself have experienced it and it shakes you when it’s so unexpected and unprovoked.

I must say I raised an eyebrow in the early hours when Farage was blathering on about looking forward to boosting tourism in Clacton - who the fuck is making a beeline there now?

(apologies to anyone who lives in clacton who didn’t vote reform, this must really sting)

Ummmmmm. Too many misunderstandings and conflations in your comment to really be able to respond usefully.

anyway, I’m not calling Reform voters racist. I’m just appalled at how Reform voters can hold their nose so easily when voting for a bunch of bigoted racists.

That's the logical equivalent of saying, "Rothschild Bank brokered the treaty of versailles, therefore let's make scapegoats out of all jewish people in germany."

How can one tell id someone's voted Reform anyway? Pehaps there should be some visible marker...an armband with a symbol, maybe?

People who voted reform are not at risk of facing discrimination akin to Jewish people in nazi Germany. These comparisons are absurd.

No, I'm not petty.

Solidarity OP. I live in a very diverse borough of London and popped in to drop something off to the charity shop this morning where I overheard the manager talking about 'them' (immigrants/refugees) wanting it all for free while we starved. She confidently told the person she was talking to that it was 'just a matter of time before it's our time again'. The way she looked at me (Asian) told me all I needed to know about what she meant. As someone said upthread, racists walk among us. Stay strong and don't put up with this shit. Im going to be calling the charity up and complaining about this woman.

You get thick racists who think that foreign people are the cause of all their woes.

You get thick liberal ‘intelligentsia’ who can’t understand why anyone could ever have an issue with totally open borders or immigrants with no desire to participate in society.

A total lack of empathy on both sides which is leading to the polarisation of our society.

nyway, I’m not calling Reform voters racist. I’m just appalled at how Reform voters can hold their nose so easily when voting for a bunch of bigoted racists.

Then you don't understan a well researched tenet of parliamentary democracy, which was demonstrated time and again to tragic conclusions in the twentieth century: People in advanced economies vote for extremists parties because they are desperate. Usually they'e in big trouble economically. So the task is to help them.

You say you 'look carefully at all the facts' but you either don't look, or you look but not carefully, or what you were looking at were headlines not factual studies to be found in history books and political textbooks.

Please do some reading and spend some time with your fellow human beings. Practise empathy. I can assure you that the world will then seem more complex, less black and hite, and more beautiful too.

Totally agree . Someone posted something on our local FB group today about hopefully Reform will build in the next few years and win the seat next time - I’m amazed that anybody would be thick enough to want their neighbours knowing that is who they voted for

What a load of patronising guff. You didn’t add to the debate at all, just sneered down at me from your high horse. How ironic.

Honestly @TinaMariah this really isn't something I'd considered. Maybe once I'd sat down I might have, but being realistic, as a white woman it likely wouldn't have crossed my mind.

I'm unlikely to go to any of those places anyway, but genuinely, thank you for bringing this to my attention. I do try and be aware of these things so I can counter and support where needed - but I do think I need to be more proactive in this.

I can tell you that the last BNP (I think - was a while ago) 'march' that was attempted here in Liverpool was basically chased out of town. I was there, not in the thick of things as I had small kids with me, but loudly on the sidelines. I hope to be more active politically going forward and your post is a stark reminder of why.

Also, big hugs. So sorry you've encountered some ignorant fuckers.

The nearest one to me is a shithole, which I avoid anyway, so no change.

It's full of people who take against school and instead strive to make the teachers' lives a nightmare, start breeding at 15 or 16, go on to have multiple families by the time they're mid 20s, don't work or at best have a patchy work history then wonder why their standard of living is poor and blame immigrants.

That is not what I was saying. I was saying that making a sweeping judgement on a whole group of people due to a deed done by a small group of individuals who weren't even art of the first group, is a Dunning Kruger move of the highest order.

It's a position that can only be arrived at by taking the same logical pratfalls that led to German people in the 1930s thinking that Jews were responsible for their problems.

Either it's ignorance, or it's about someone wanted to feel all terrible superior to their fellow human beings. Which is also quite an ignorant stance, per Jung, actually.

Clacton, Great Yarmouth and Skegness, I would have avoided them before hand anyway. They are very very similar run done neglected seaside towns who I imagine have felt neglected for decades from both Labour and Conservative governments, I can see why Reform would have targeted them as easy wins for them.

They’re not exactly places that people tended to flock to before the election. I doubt there’ll be a huge difference.

Edited to add: and that fact that they’re such undesirable places probably tells us a lot about how reform managed to win there.

It's not just those 4 seats though is it, it's across the whole country. One in 4 people voted Reform in my very strong labour constituency. One in 8 if you count all the non-voters.

I'm not one of them but I can see why people did. And it's not just "because they're massive racists" (although a proportion of them will be)

Immigration is an issue, and it's one that will only get worse as the climate keeps changing. Whichever party is in power, we do need to get a handle on it. Whether that's "stopping the boats", setting limits on legal migration etc.

The Tories have caused this by claiming they're doing something about it and then not, if labour actually tackle the issue then that stops Reform in their tracks.

I do think Reform the party are racist, their leadership are, most of their candidates probably are. I don't think that necessarily means that the majority of Reform voters are.

Trust me, you lose nothing by not going to Clacton!

Yes I have, as previously said, I didn't vote for them.

But again, to simply call the voters in those areas racist without even attempting to understand WHY they may have felt like reform where the only option is exactly why reform are getting votes.

There are many areas of the country who are suffering from very high levels of deprivation, poverty, poor education outcomes etc... and those are the areas voting for reform. Could it be that those areas are simply sick of being ignored, and called racist for raising (quite legitimate) concerns about the effect of very fast, increasing immigration on their areas, that has, especially in Boston changed the demographic of the area quite significantly.

Start looking at why, yes some voters will have voted for racist and shitty reasons, however for some it'll be a fuck you to the main political parties that have ignored them for years because it's easier than facing the issues in those areas (and as previously stated in this thread, who gives a fuck about some backwater seaside towns?)

@PersephonePomegranate23 ,

‘It's full of people who take against school and instead strive to make the teachers' lives a nightmare, start breeding at 15 or 16, go on to have multiple families by the time they're mid 20s, don't work or at best have a patchy work history then wonder why their standard of living is poor and blame immigrants.’

It is this kind of snobbery that is dividing people. Breed?! Do your family also breed, or do they just have children?

We need to ask why places have become like this and now we can can help them improve, not write off the white working classes and accept another wave of low skilled immigrants who are prepared to work for a pittance.

Othering people, as you have done, is exactly what racists do, and no less bad.

I am sorry that you experienced such open hostility and racist behaviour.

Sadly, many parts of the UK have been sorely neglected by all major political parties, who have zero interest in serving British people and listening to their concerns.

The typical behaviour of political elites is to ignore these concerns, and carry on imposing their own ideological views. They think they are being delightful 'allies' to brown and black people by doing this.

The reality is that refusing to deal with people's concerns will inevitably cause a backlash, and brown and black people will be the first in line to feel the effects of liberal dogma.

I don't see the political establishment moving towards genuine solutions to these long-standing problems. Far better to look down on these areas and the people who live there.

Exactly this

I'm really sad that places like Newcastle have Reform as their second. It surprised me actually, I know the north is generally Red but it makes me sad to think there are so many reform voters in my home city