REFORM Party Questions.....

[Modernfamily2011]

Genuine question here, I do not want to start arguments but i'm honestly curious as to the hate for the Reform party....... I will be the first to admit that politics is absolutely not my strong point but this Election and for the last few months I have been doing a lot of research

I will not be voting Conservatives but Labour don't fill me with any confidence either, the Reform party Manifesto actually looks good, I would love the minimum income tax rate to be raised, Stamp Duty threshold to be higher, NHS change, energy bills to be lower etc

Am I just a little naïve and is this just a case of Farage talking nonsense? A bit like the Brexit debacle? Surely if these policies could have been implemented then they would have and where would the money come from? Farage is an excellent speaker and he knows how to play the public, there is no doubt about that

I would love some insight from those who know a little more about politics than me!

If you own a company and pay yourself dividends instead of wages the loophole is that this has a lower tax / NI burden. Its not the biggest loophole admittedly but there are instances where company directors are doing this when it is clearly a wage.

Are you seriously asking why we need growth?

I am actually asking where growth stops. Because if it doesn't it will eventually consume the known universe.

And if it does, then where ?

That's all.

I think the growth question is a great one

Continual growth has been behind the economic models of the last few centuries

We "succeeded " by growing market size ( growing population) and growing into other countries ( invasion and settlement ) and through destruction ( destroying our atmosphere for example to "create" wealth )

Continual growth is not possible for ever

We need a new economic model

Note that it's a model - a way of structuring society and finance to make it work the way we want it to

It is no longer working and the assumptions behind it are invalid

There isn't anything stopping us creating a new economic model

Perhaps going back to basics - money as an iou for work done , where work done must include social care as well as traditional wealth creating activities like mining and destruction

We don't need wealth creation, we need wealth maintenance and careful redistribution

Imagine a world where caring for someone earns more than destroying a landscape - sounds nice ? And no reason at all why we can't create such a world

Only those who have the cash now don't like redistribution and they don't like the idea of having to have a new mindset

Students in France in the 1960s rioted about the narrowness of economic theory that was being taught at the time

They were right to do so

I think the growth question is a great one

Thanks for your company on the stupid step 😀

As I said, Farage did ask the question once. to a room of tumbleweed. Which immediately alerted me to a glitch in the Matrix.

I think "sustainable growth" has been the supposed objective for the last few decades tbf.

Whether or not they just pay lip service to it or not.

I think the growth question is a great one

Its a fabulous question. I just wish I was clever enough to have asked it!

Oh, OK. I think it will stop when one of three things happens:

1. Climate change wipes us all out
2. The moon escapes the Earth's gravity and wipes us all out (it is moving steadily away from the Earth, but no need to worry about it any time soon)
3. We end up in the Star Trek world where money is a thing of the past

Until then, it is, as you quite rightly say, a never ending cycle that will eventually consume all the planet's resources.

There is no such thing as "sustainable" growth. And anyone who thinks there is, is at best naïve and at worst totally dim.

"Growth" is a process of moving from x->x+1. It really is that simple. And eventually that will lead to x tends to infinity.

So where do we get our infinite resources ? (Apart from it seems the stupidity of extremists).

All - and I mean all, not "99.99999%" but all populations on earth are constrained by the resources available.

I heard the author of this book on a podcast talking about exactly that:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Doughnut-Economics-Seven-21st-Century-Economist-ebook/dp/B01BUOGF58?ref=d6k_applink_bb_dls&dplnkId=94a581d3-c520-4462-9abf-6243b834ed89

@SerendipityJane

"There is no such thing as "sustainable" growth. And anyone who thinks there is, is at best naïve and at worst totally dim."

Well that's a confident statement. Unfortunately you followed it with:

"Growth" is a process of moving from x->x+1. It really is that simple. And eventually that will lead to x tends to infinity."

A gross oversimplification, which allows you to draw a poor conclusion ( which makes your first point rather ironic).

"So where do we get our infinite resources ? "

Hmm, its you that suggests the need for infinite resources.

All in all this seems to be a simplistic and rather Malthusian take on things.

Oh and Malthus? He was wrong.

Ok perhaps you can explain how we can have continued growth with ink finite resources because you seem to say its flawed to say continuous growth is impossible without explaining why b

I have observed on this thread that it is fashionable to state a position and then support it with zero evidence.

This thread took quite the turn there.

I am going to lower the tone by wondering how people could think Reform could find and deliver 5% spending cuts from every government budget while protecting the front line, while apparently being incapable of managing a single, fairly straightforward contract through to delivery?

😂
Yeah. I think Reform is too naive to be anywhere near government procurement. They will get rinsed.

£144,000 to find out whether a few hundred people have posted on social media things that Reform Ltd doesn't approve of rather suggests they do not know much about good value for money.

£144,000 to find out whether a few hundred people have posted on social media things that Reform Ltd doesn't approve of

Who says Reform doesn't approve of them ? I thought it was more the case it wasn't supposed to get out, that's all.

Reform candidate who supports Hitler ? No surprise there.
Reform candidate who is stupid enough to let people know he supports Hitler ? Probably not the best man* for the job.

*On balance of probabilities,

If only they had vetted checked the company's website

This is Farages oily way of preparing the ground for a Reform damp squib - make it someone elses fault.

Reform are only ever going to attract people if they can play the perma-underdog card. can't get a job ? It's coz you is white, innit. Can't get a house ? It's coz of the asylagrants innit ?

and so on.

They appeal to everyone who failed an exam because they forgot their lucky pen rather than not doing any work, reading or revision.

I'm sure I read too that money from the cuts they planned from civil service are actually 7x the civil service staff budget- that's going some!!

@Triestre do you have any evidence for why the middle classes would like Reform Ltd scrapping their employment rights?

Can we have a bit of peace and love, please?

Here's a news story about the kinds of candidates Reform are fielding. Personally not the kind of people I would want representing me in parliament
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx77lvd6e73o

@midgetastic

"We need a new economic model"

In case you missed the fall of communism in the late 80s you can still check out how communism / hard socialism is economically doing in Venezuela and North Korea.

Communism isn't the only possible alternative you know !

And this isn't the states with its interesting fear of communist ideas