Labour and Pensioners

[Mycatsmudge]

So Labour has declared they will not increase taxes and NI on working people, but they need to raise money for their manifesto promises such as free breakfast clubs, more teachers, dentists etc. To help pay for it all would it be a good idea if they remove the triple lock on state pensions and make pensioners pay NI?

It would be a better idea to raise capital gains tax and other taxes based on wealth rather than income. Taking money away from a relatively low income group really isn’t a good look.

Why?
Why should one demographic be pitted against another?

The State Pension falls below the level of income at which NI is payable doesn't it?

The state pension does fall below the income tax threshold, but pensioners do pay income tax on all income which is above that threshold, eg from private pensions. Whereas they don't pay NI on any income regardless of threshold.

It's because National Insurance is meant to be a insurance which covers you for out-of-work benefits and builds up your state pension: and once someone is pension age those no longer apply.

Of course, National Insurance isn't really an insurance. It mainly acts as another form of tax.

Although it is a tax tied to benefits (insurance and out-of-work benefits) so I suppose it's kind of like an insurance. But it's progressive like tax: the more you earn, the more you pay - with no increase in benefit - so that's more like a tax. And it isn't completely segregated: it goes into general government income, and the benefits come out of general government income.

But that was certainly the original intention.

*sorry, tied to pension and out-of-work benefits.

Spotted my typo too late to fix.

This

Also worth noting that pensioner poverty is increasing and will do more for those coming up to pension age because (figures from Age UK and Independent Age) People aged 60-64 now have the highest relative poverty rate at 25%.

There's also this fact
The other noticeable trend is that inequalities within older generations are some of the most extreme in society.

Pensioner poverty is not only increasing but it's too often ignored.

To add to what @Againname wrote: with regards to poverty, it is persistent poverty which is most damaging. Living in poverty year after year after year. Pensioner households are less likely than most to be able to find additional income to escape poverty, chiefly because of age discrimination among employers and declining health.

I recently went to an art exhibition and was rightly charged the full adult fee but I did notice a well dressed affluent looking couple in front of me who had arrived in a black cab and claim the reduced pensioner fee. I do feel due to rising house prices and final salary pensions there are a sizeable number of pensioners who are a lot better than working people, maybe those over the threshold should pay NI especially as they are the largest users of the NHS

A lot of these people would have paid over 45 years worth of NI. Give them a break.
I think the pension should be tax free anyway.

But some pensioners are financially very comfortable far more so than some working families who may have to work until their 70s for their state and increasingly work pensions and pay 45+ years of NI. Would it not be fairer for current pensioners to pay NI if they are over the threshold?

You have to go back and ask yourself why some pensioners are financially comfortable. These people have DONE their years and over 45 years of NI payments already.
These WERE the working families of their time.

The tax on the pension discourages older people from looking for little jobs to keep them active and alive.

I’m sure you’ll feel exactly the same about it once you’re retired, OP.

I think this is partly because 1 in 4 pensioners are millionnaires. I know that is mainly property wealth, but it does skew the statistics I would have thought, as relative to other pensioners the ones without a house owned outright are poor. I think eventually the triple lock will have to go, because it is unaffordable. I don't think they should have to pay NI, but as a group pensioners are holding huge amounts of wealth, that will be passed on to grandchildren, when those who's grandparents did not buy a house will end up not being able to afford one at all, exacerbating the problem through generations.

Sky and BBC have both said that Labours spending plans are lower than that of the Tories.

They have said they will keep the Triple Lock.

So a better question is "Where will Sunak get this additional money from?" or "what will he cut?"

Either NIC on private pensions (so it won't affect those with only state pension and small private pensions).

Or

Means test the state pension at a level of, say, £50k, in the same way that they means test and withdraw child benefit from people earning over £50k (now £60k). £50k per person is higher than average income for workers, so no one "needs" state pension on top of that kind of income.

Something has to be done. It's grossly unfair that pensioners with higher than average incomes are paying less tax than workers on exactly the same income (i.e. they're exempt from NIC!).

House price inflation has produced a substantial proportion of the population that is asset rich and cash poor. That money doesn’t exist until the asset is sold. I can’t believe you think it’s sensible to base fiscal policy on a well heeled London couple who claimed a discount they’re entitled to and used a taxi.

People like Rishi who don't get most of their income from PAYE employment pay tax at the lowest rates. They aren't short of cash, why not have a look at them rather than caning the old?

Just listening to Andrew O’Neil on Times radio going through Labours manifesto and how they plan to fund their spending plans. It is vague on planned tax increases but it seems they will grow the economy mainly by green investments which will raise taxes🤔Andrew’s guest even said the plan is similar to that of Liz Truss😵

Well of course he would say that wouldn't he?

Truss wanted to borrow to fund tax cuts.... that spooked the financial markets.

Labours plan is nothing of the sort, 'Neil and the Tory supporting press are trying everything to discredit Labour, including making stuff up.

If you mean Andrew Neil he is and always has been a Tory supporter and neither he nor the Times are unbiased.
It's like citing Corbyn's views on Tory policy as reported in the Morning Star.

I've got 7 years to go and do intend to live like a queen on my £221.20 a week but will come home each evening to my house that I worked and paid for, until I fall down the stairs or something .

Would your plan to make pensioners pay NI come into force immediately. Many of us have worked for 50 years paying tax and NI and have planned our retirement funds over many years. To suddenly impose NI on those already retired will push negate all that planning and reduce the money we spend locally. If you impose it on people due to retire wher do you draw the line 5 years to go 10 years etc, look how that worked for the WASPI women.

To sow seeds of discontent, so one demographic points the fingers of blame at another, all the while not at the government (any government), it was ever thus.

Don't dare go to any art galleries