Welcome to Reform's vision for state control...

[CassieMaddox]

Buried in their "contract" I.e. manifesto which I've just lost an hour of my life reading.

New Police Leadership & Recruitment Regime. Strong preference for ex-military officers and personnel. I read this as militarising the police.

Introduce new Armed Forces Justice Bill.Protect our servicemen and women on active duty inside and outside the UK from civil law and human rights lawyers. AKA allow the military/new military style police to operate with impunity against UK citizens. A bit like the Stasi. 😮

Instigate “Veterans First” priority Status. For healthcare, housing, training and education, together with support for dependents.

Preferential Qualification for Key Public Sector Leadership Roles. Such as Chief Superintendent of Police Forces, CEO / COO roles in hospitals amongst others.

Give ex military rewards for being loyal, in terms of housing, jobs etc.

I'm actually quite scared by the level of state control Reform are suggesting, buried in pages and pages of boring waffle so I thought I'd summarise it for others who might be considering voting for them

https://www.reformparty.uk/policing

https://www.reformparty.uk/defence

https://www.reformparty.uk/department-for-veterans

Also
"Reopen High Intensity Training Camps for young offenders to teach basic education, teamwork and values. Military veterans can provide role models."

"Commence building of 10,000 New Detention Places.
Start expansion in capacity of state built and managed prisons so that life means life for those who endanger the public. Commission disused military bases if needed."

It's terrifying isn't it

Christ! I'm currently watching a documentary on the rise of the Nazis and this sounds staggeringly familiar!

These are huge fantasies of people who are currently impotent and want power.

It is very revealing that this is the language they use, but this will excite their voters. A lot of them want a perception of control, and are excited by it.

These are a public fantasy. Hell can only guess and what the private politics are. Every party has a gap - what the top of Refotm think is still a mystery

Farage and Reform are simply the symptom. The real issue is why so many are considering voting for them and why are they increasing in popularity ?

Why do people vote for something hard right? Envy, anger, hatred of neighbours, a perception of loss, gripped by nostalgia, craving certainty with reference to a perceived simpler past.

Farage is a consummate pedlar of a Britain that never was; like every hard right politician. He gives people emotion. He indulges emotion in people, and they love that. It’s a permissive thing, to emote, but not think

You missed out fear. I think fear can be relevant.

Ugh this is horrendous. The media are so into this too- creating and feeding the fear that all this thrives on. Should be illegal to lie or act unlawfully (discriminatorily) in an election campaign but I don't think it is, is it?
So adverts for biscuits are more carefully regulated than adverts for future governments? No wonder we are where we are.

@Userxyd

"Should be illegal to lie or act unlawfully (discriminatorily) in an election campaign but I don't think it is, is it?"

No candidate would ever get elected if they told the truth. Voters prefer to be lied to rather than face hard truths.

Yes fear, based in reality or untruth is another reason. Farage’s jolly chuckle has that in the background - if you know what I know, seen what I’ve seen, you’d be the same as me”.

People fill in the gaps for themselves. It’s very effective, particularly compared to a technocrat like Sunak or Starmer. The technocrat is accused of having no soul or patriotism by a man who appears to have it in overflow. All the time, appeal to the emotions, away from rationality or questions.

@bombastix

"Why do people vote for something hard right? Envy, anger, hatred of neighbours, a perception of loss, gripped by nostalgia, craving certainty with reference to a perceived simpler past. "

So what can be done to persuade or offer an alternative vision to such voters, because they are not going away and are in fact are increasing in popularity.

Thanks for taking one for the team OP. I don't need to read it now.

One of problems in this election is the dearth of hope. Both the main parties lack that hopeful message ; they don’t give even a faint broader idea that things can improve. All day this election it is coatings - the big, hopeful narrative is not there. Sunak not attending D Day fully - a terrible thing to do as it’s literally every ordinary Brit “doing their bit”. That narrative was written as an idea by Churchill, the master of politics as hope.

We need that narrative of hope. Or it is going to be filled by this poison. For myself, I wish that Labour start writing these big narratives in government as soon as possible.

Maybe that seems vague; Labour need a big vision to squash Reform with their fantasies of uniforms and people doing as they are told. Is Keir Starmer that great communicator? I don’t think so. But it may be in office he can be effective in making people feel they are seen and heard, and their suffering (and there has been a lot of suffering for people in the last decade) is seen and addressed.

@bombastix

One interesting fact that stood out for me was that in 2019 the Lib Dems increased spending plans totalled £84 billion. This time round they total £8.4 billion.

Post Covid and post fuel support there simply isn't the ability to spend more money, as Liz Truss found out the hard way.

No the money is dire. Public spending near as dammit 100 per cent of GDP. That is the real Conservative economy.

I do understand the need to be real with the public on money. But they need hope too and a connection to who leads them. Farage is very good at connecting. His end of the pier act will outdo Boris Johnson any day of the week. Labour can’t just do a lefty technocrat style and hope to stop Reform; they need to become emotionally popular.

To me it’s clear. The hard right always rises (across the globe) when the other options are shit.

I will not vote con or lab. Neither will my dh. They are a bunch of incompetent liars.

i want political reform - a change to representation, parties working together rather than yapping crap at eachother in parliament like it’s a playground. People working together for the long term future of health and education rather than using them as political footballs with stupid policies which are designed to win votes, not fix issues

I don’t know what to do with my vote. Either not vote (which is what I did last time), vote Lib Dem, or vote reform. Farage is very charismatic. I can see why people would vote for him. I probably won’t, but it’s very easy to see how this is happening.

it will only get worse. At the moment, there are a lot of people who think labour will fix everything. When they don’t, some of those people will vote next time for characters like farage.

Not just the UK as we saw with EU Elections. France, Germany, Austria....

Um okay but I read it as

Introduce new Armed Forces Justice Bill.Protect our servicemen and women on active duty inside and outside the UK from civil law and human rights lawyers
......
we've had some high profile cases of service men being treated like criminals ao this is to ensure thay doesn't happen

Instigate “Veterans First” priority Status. For healthcare, housing, training and education, together with support for dependents.

Preferential Qualification for Key Public Sector Leadership Roles. Such as Chief Superintendent of Police Forces, CEO / COO roles in hospitals amongst others.
........

This reads to me like they want veterans to be better recognised for their service, I read this and automatically think this is similiar to how America treat their veterans. Infact in some companies including public sector there already is some level of preferential trestment for veterans getting jobs in terms of specific recruitment drives. This isn't new really

Farage isn't Donald Trump. He won't get close to a meaningful number of seats, and after 5 years of him not turning up for work (he has form for this) his constituency will dump him. If Trump gets elected, it's the end of democracy in America. If Farage gets elected, it's the end of media interest in him.

"This reads to me like they want veterans to be better recognised for their service, I read this and automatically think this is similiar to how America treat their veterans. Infact in some companies including public sector there already is some level of preferential trestment for veterans getting jobs in terms of specific recruitment drives. This isn't new really"
Exactly that. DH spent nearly 30yrs in the military. I can only see these policies as a good thing. I didn't get 'hard right' or Nazi vibes from it at all.

The other thing about Reform that very much concerns me is it's been set up as a business so everything they do and stand for is at the behest of the Leader- Farage. It's not like other parties. Any MPs elected will be working for Farage, not their constituents, all the policy can be changed at the drop of a hat. All the members are just mouthpieces for Farage.

Reform is set up like a dictatorship itself. That speaks volumes.

The military are not above the law.
Military on "active service" in the UK should not be able to act with impunity against UK citizens.

I am also very concerned why they needed to specify "on active service in the UK". It sounds like they are going to be engaged in military activities against the British public. Utterly terrifying and very much like a dictatorship with the military are used to enforce the desires of the leadership.

The fact this is in a manifesto is terrifying. Hiding in plain sight.

@CassieMaddox

"I am also very concerned why they needed to specify "on active service in the UK". It sounds like they are going to be engaged in military activities against the British public"

Please stop with the scaremongering and conspiracy theories.

The UK military is not going to be engaged in military activities against the British public.

Why specify that they need protection within the UK then?

"When someone tells you who they are, believe them"