Welcome to Reform's vision for state control...

[CassieMaddox]

Buried in their "contract" I.e. manifesto which I've just lost an hour of my life reading.

New Police Leadership & Recruitment Regime. Strong preference for ex-military officers and personnel. I read this as militarising the police.

Introduce new Armed Forces Justice Bill.Protect our servicemen and women on active duty inside and outside the UK from civil law and human rights lawyers. AKA allow the military/new military style police to operate with impunity against UK citizens. A bit like the Stasi. 😮

Instigate “Veterans First” priority Status. For healthcare, housing, training and education, together with support for dependents.

Preferential Qualification for Key Public Sector Leadership Roles. Such as Chief Superintendent of Police Forces, CEO / COO roles in hospitals amongst others.

Give ex military rewards for being loyal, in terms of housing, jobs etc.

I'm actually quite scared by the level of state control Reform are suggesting, buried in pages and pages of boring waffle so I thought I'd summarise it for others who might be considering voting for them

https://www.reformparty.uk/policing

https://www.reformparty.uk/defence

https://www.reformparty.uk/department-for-veterans

@CassieMaddox

Because active service includes providing help to the civilian population in natural disasters and such like.

For example if the army was called out to help in flood situation and failed to save someone from drowning or failed to prevent damage to property then they couldn't be sued for compensation via civil law for compensation in the same way the NHS is.

That said it would have been wise to have excluded the wording "inside the UK" in order to stop conspiracy theorists starting rumours that Farage is about a military coup when the reality is that he's not even capable of starting a car.

Why specify that they need protection within the UK then?
Because recent examples of armed forces personnel being investigated/prosecuted include offences committed in Northern Ireland as well as Iraq. They understand their target audience better than you do. They're abhorrent, but they know what will trigger their supporters.

Yes exactly. This is about privileged military status so that in effect different rules apply.

You want your armed forces accountable for what they do in the UK and it to be ECHR compliant. Otherwise they have special power over ordinary citizens

Farage is very charismatic.

So interesting how people see different things in people. Trump, Hitler, Farage - all described as charismatic, but I'm absolutely certain that I can't be the only person who finds them repellent. To me they are stomach churning to look at with their temper, manipulation, gurning anger, total certainty that they're right.

Exactly what my concern is. This must be how dictatorships start. "It's the will of the people"

Im pretty sure veterans are already prioritised for certain things. Definitely housing at least among other things. That's nothing new

I do think that ex military should be given priority when it comes to housing. OP why do you not agree with that?

Preferential Qualification for Key Public Sector Leadership Roles. Such as Chief Superintendent of Police Forces, CEO / COO roles in hospitals amongst others.

This makes no sense to me.

Either being in the forces provides you with skills ets to be able to perform the role of Hospital CEO better than someone who hasn't - in which case, why wouldn't they be appointed anyway as part of a fair process?

Or it doesn't - in which case, why are we appointing someone substandard to such important roles?

We can't use roles like Chief Superintendent of Police Forces as a reward package.

I certainly don't find Farage charismatic - I find him, and his ideas, repulsive - and am terrified about people actually voting for him. I too have watched documentaries about the rise of the Nazis - have we learned nothing!

They are

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/social-housing-to-be-prioritised-for-veterans

Priority over single mothers?
Priority over homeless under-21s?

Who do you think they should have priority over?

I don't think ex-military should be prioritised over others just because they are exmilitary. It should be on need (e.g. a single soldier leaving the army shouldn't be prioritised over a homeless pregnant woman).

Housing is a hot topic. Using it as a "reward" suggests that some how military service will get you additional status and privileges, it sets the tone of a "them and us" and I believe is a necessary building block for a militarised society where whoever is in control ofthe army is the leader. An authoritarian dictatorship in other words.

I read active service as "being at war". They would not be at war with the public.

I think it means if this country was ever invaded, unlikely but not impossible.

By the way, that's a rhetorical question. We all know exactly who Reform think they should have priority over.

Yes I do, if you join the military then you are aware that you may be asked to fight for your country and get killed or seriously injured. Military personnel put their lives on the line to protect us. Yes it's their choice but I am grateful for everyone who serves in the military and they should be recognised and appreciated.

Reform are all about differences. Immigrants have less ECHR rights or none. The Army may be excluded from liability in the U.K. to act compatibly with the ECHR.

Respecting the military does not mean they need special rules or privileges.

@CassieMaddox

I" don't think ex-military should be prioritised over others just because they are exmilitary. It should be on need"

An interesting question on whether the support from the Gov (housing, benefits etc) should be prioritised on the basis of:
Need
Contribution to the country (eg military)
Financial contribution to taxation (ie the highest tax payers)

Need would seem most fairest but does create a perverse incentive to keep yourself in the most disadvantaged section of society.

Contribution to the country- appeals to patriotism and a sense of repaying those that have made the most sacrifice to the country.

Financial contribution - seems logical from a pure economic perspective but unfair on a political perspective.

I'm grateful too, but other people also put their lives on the line to ensure we are safe - I'm thinking particularly of medical staff during the pandemic, but it could also apply to police officers and many other professions.

If you believe human being are inherently feckless and lazy I can see why you'd be worried.

I think humans are by nature intelligent and like having a meaning and purpose, so i don't think its much of a risk.

@LumiB we've had some high profile cases of service men being treated like criminals ao this is to ensure thay doesn't happen

And what about cases where the servicemen were criminals, like the abduction, rape and murder of Louise Jensen in Cyprus? Should those animals be immune from their crimes just because they’re military personnel?

This is from last evenings BBC Look East. A rally in Norwich. These are the people this is designed to appeal to.

So depressing.

Been both of those things at the same time even and still think they should be prioritised. Indeed they already are prioritised so this wouldn't be anything new

.....they smelt of pubs and Wormwood Scrubs
And too many right wing meetings.

That's why they have military police

Why is that depressing, and what type of person are you referring to?