Tonight's TV debate Sunak v Starmer - any predictions?

[CallingOccupantsOfInterplanetaryCraft]

Anyone up for a watch thread? Maybe even debate bingo. I know I know, don't threaten me with a good time. (Bingo suggestions: natural party of business, Labour has no plan, end the chaos, Rayner will take over, assorted references to Starmer's time as DPP probably blaming for Jimmy Saville again, inflation is down etc etc.)

At this point I seriously doubt anything like this will remotely change the game Nick Clegg style. I read somewhere the only way Sunak could come out of this ahead in the polls is if Starmer pulled off a mask scooby-doo style to reveal he's Jeremy Corbyn, which admittedly would be great telly.

I'm so fed up with the endless rhetoric but will definitely watch later anyway.

Plus there’s only agreement for 250 to Rwanda isn’t there? With up to 250 coming from there in exchange? He thinks it’s a deterrent, it if drowning in the channel doesn’t deter you then the vanishingly small possibility you’ll be sent to Rwanda won’t.

We won’t be worse off by £2k a year. That was a lie. Aimed at people who know nothing, probably, as it’s obvious that with taxes there’s never a way for every household to pay the same. Maybe help your daughter understand politics better so that democracy means something?

ScoobyDoesnt · Today 10:18
Neither covered themselves in glory last night and I’m still undecided. However Sunak for me was slightly better from the get go, his opening statement was better.

I don’t particularly want either of them as PM!

Starmer was like a wet weekend. I don’t trust Angela Rayner at all who I’m sure pulls his strings.

Labour has also ruined Wales and if that’s an indication of a labour government, I want it less. I’m also old enough to remember the shambles of the last labour government

This.
Also the Labour party are going to tax old age pensions! disgraceful, lost my vote, no plans put forward was just a drip!

It’s been said several times now.
You don’t have to change anything before 2030. It’s for when you do need to change after that date.

They were, because there is zero evidence for the £2k and they know it. The £2k is a fantasy - a lie.

There is so much inverted snobbery on MN, with 0 irony.

I do think Sunak’s choice of words re private school was stupid and offensive. It would have been far better for him to attack the fact it’s not going to raise any bloody money, than to bleat on about parents working hard.

Also the Labour party are going to tax old age pensions! disgraceful, lost my vote, no plans put forward was just a drip!

In what way?

The only two differences I can see are...

1. The Tory pledge not to tax state pension (ie to keep personal tax free allowance in line with the state pension). Labour have not committed to this: expected actual difference for someone who relies on state pension is £14.60 a year.
2. The Tory's recently removed the £1m lifetime allowance on tax free savings for a pension. Labour have said they would bring it back - so if you had already paid £1m into your pension any contributions above that would be subject to normal income taxes.

Wales is not ruined ffs. Lots of things work better here - and remember who controls the whole budget for Wales. Westminster Tories.

No, Labour aren’t going to ‘tax old age pensions’. It’s just that with rises in pension and freezes of tax thresholds the pension will come into the taxable range. It’s always been notionally taxable.

I do find the whole pension triple lock thing a bit odd - I mean, the elderly's savings are looted via nursing home fees of around £1.6K a week... on top of which, they kill them off anyway - dehydration or fluid withdrawal is deliberate policy and families are not informed about it. Admittedly I guess that's one way of putting a cap on expenditure but so much for modern Britain.

A good synopsis www.facebook.com/share/bzkScsFG7bdQjqrD/

Well after last night I was left with the impression Labour don’t have any policies, at least none that their leader is aware of and can articulate.

I was thoroughly embarrassed for Keir. I thought his training as a barrister would make him far more articulate and able to present facts and an argument. You could have stuck a member of a 6th form debating club up there and got better results.

He is either not willing to say anything on the basis it might upset someone or come back to bite him ( his whole MO when he was MIA during covid

Doesn’t actually have policies

or he is completely incompetent

Last night could seriously have lost them the election

Poor and embarrassing

So many lies in this post.

Last night could seriously have lost them the election

It'll take more than one debate to overturn a 20+ point lead!

So why didn’t Keir say that. Either he is incompetent or he doesn’t listen - neither is a great quality in anyone let alone someone wanting to be PM

Genuinely, why can’t people
spell Keir?

Actually, I suspect this is the exact view of Starmer many had last night it was diabolical- he’s an incompetent wet blanket. Makes me wonder how quickly he would be ditched after the election and replaced by people a lot further left.

Why does it matter? Keir/ Kier we know who we are discussing.

I love the smell of Tory desperation.

All the weaslely lies about taxing pensions, boilers being ripped out of people's homes in 2030, £2k tax increase for everyone. People saying it's "scary". They're "terrified".

We need a bingo card.

Because it’s insane - it’s a 4 letter word with a correct spelling and I don’t understand, given how it’s everywhere in the newspapers constantly, people can’t get it right.

The man needs to rapidly become more competent then because any repeat of last night is going to be a disaster. Seriously how can anyone who is trained to present facts and put forward arguments come across so poorly in a debate. He’s certainly already lost the votes of the floating voters I’ve spoken to this morning,

Oh, not that old chestnut about the nasty "hard" left waiting in the wings.

We had that one in 1997.

Didn't wash then, won't now.

.

Starmer had a working class childhood and had own set of struggles due to mother's poor health while Sunak had a comfortable childhood. So maybe he can empathise a bit better than Rishi.

Paul Johnson (IFS) commenting on the £2,000 Tax claim.

Personally I would be paying most attention to his third point. Both parties have their heads in the sand about the fact that they can’t spend what they are planning to without some form of tax rise OVER AND ABOVE the fiscal drag.