Tonight's TV debate Sunak v Starmer - any predictions?

[CallingOccupantsOfInterplanetaryCraft]

Anyone up for a watch thread? Maybe even debate bingo. I know I know, don't threaten me with a good time. (Bingo suggestions: natural party of business, Labour has no plan, end the chaos, Rayner will take over, assorted references to Starmer's time as DPP probably blaming for Jimmy Saville again, inflation is down etc etc.)

At this point I seriously doubt anything like this will remotely change the game Nick Clegg style. I read somewhere the only way Sunak could come out of this ahead in the polls is if Starmer pulled off a mask scooby-doo style to reveal he's Jeremy Corbyn, which admittedly would be great telly.

I'm so fed up with the endless rhetoric but will definitely watch later anyway.

I’m beginning to think there’s a game of chicken going on with the manifestos. Labour don’t want to release theirs just for the Tories to pinch a load of ideas.

My apologies I thought it was the same thing. Do why all the Hoo Haa on mn.

They are removing some tax breaks and charging VAT at 20%. That bit was mentioned in the debate.

This sums up the debate for me.

Or Labour doesn’t have any ideas for theirs?

Christ that was bloody awful. Both men were weak and woolly and neither have any flair or know how to engage an audience. Very weak on policy too.

If I had to call it I would say Sunak had the upper hand as Starmer came across as irritated most of the time and the eye rolling and chuntering made him seem weak. Sunak asked him several direct questions which Starmer just waffled on past. Labour do not seem to have any plans whatsoever and Sunak is more of the same but I do think some of his points landed better. Starmer's closing speech was better but that was due to the autocue - he reminded me all the way through of Professor Yaffle!

As I have said before - we deserve better.

VAT and Charitable Status are 2 entirely separate things. Not every private school is a charity but no private schools charge VAT because education is (currently) VAT exempt. Labour dropped the “strip them of their charitable status” policy months ago when they realised it would require changing the law and would be subject to numerous court challenges, as well as possibly screwing things up for other charities.

The VAT thing is easier to implement but it does open the door for other educational services to have VAT added to them. If nursery fees suddenly became VATable it would be a disaster for many families.

"Or Labour doesn’t have any ideas for theirs?"

Why would that preclude the Tories from publishing theirs? They called the election.

I think YouGov was founded by a Tory?

This. The politics of envy has a real danger of affecting a much, much wider group.

It’s fully costed and ready to go apparently. The Tories didn’t have one at all as of last week, despite calling an election.

Correct. He forgot to pay some tax when he sold it tho 😉

Another poster says it's not happening now. So is it or isn't it.

As it happens I think banging on about a rise in private school fee payments when many in society struggle to feed their children pay mortgages and rent, etc is embarrassing. Check your privilege.

Apparently? Says who?

If it’s costed and ready to go, why couldn’t Starmer answer any questions

The Labour Party, who else? 🙄

Because Sunak wouldn’t shut up.

I’m voting for labour no matter what as the tories track record is just so bad and I’m open to any change at this point. But honestly starmer’s
performance tonight was pretty woeful, weak and disjointed. He looked easily rattled and almost like he was on the verge of tears.

He directly asked Starmer clear questions several
times and Starmer was given the opportunity to respond and simply
had nothing to say

No. I think many of us on here are pointing out the effect it’ll have on the state sector. It will not raise money and is very likely to affect a far wider group of people than ‘the privileged’. I’m happy to be called ‘embarrassing’ for giving a shit about what happens to the wider country. This isn’t about the 7% at private school - it’s about not doing harm to the 93% to make some people feel better because they object how others spend their money.

This. It’s worrying people actually defending his performance

The breakdown looks interesting:

https://yougov.co.uk/politics/articles/49618-general-election-2024-itv-debate-snap-poll

Oh please.

Starmer is a barrister. He is literally an expert at debate, public speaking, engaging with an audience, getting what he needs from people.

If he’s so feeble he let Sunak talk over him what hope is there during trade agreements or the world stage?

I will still vote Labour but I feel blossomtoes that he could’ve done anything and you would be backing him and insisting he was amazing. Even when he was asked and given the time to answer he couldn’t really.

@CaveMum thanks for explaining.

It's not politics of envy though. When people say that it's a cheap shot. Some families struggle to feed their families and pay their extortionate rents or mortgages. Raising educational standards for all rather than for the few is what a fairer society would strive for.

That argument is ridiculous

schools have known this will happen for a long time they just have to budget so less is passed on to families. You know like state schools have had to cut back as their money has been slashed

to be able to pay for private school is a position of privilege if that privilege can’t be stretched a bit further well that’s unfortunate but life isn’t always fair moan all you like but for the vast majority of people won’t care as they just simply can not relate to being able to have such huge amounts of money spare to pay for education

Yes he did ask direct questions. Then kept hectoring him so he couldn’t answer. You missed Starmer saying he couldn’t get a word in edgeways on more than one occasion? He just wouldn’t shut the fuck up.