Is Starmer really lying as some in the media suggest?

[JimBobsWife]

x.com/aaronbastani/status/1795822857953657328?s=46&t=cHjr_VmPVNcfh4B8Dkn-8A

Just watched this which is interesting- I'm not sure how many of these have officially been rolled back on and why, but will be useful to have the manifesto sooner rather than later.

Did a politician lie?

Is the pope catholic?

Do bears shit in woods?

That’s how our electoral system works. We don’t have proportional representation; we have first past the post. We have six weeks to make change. Navel gazing is unproductive and risks another Tory administration.

You can’t change things sitting on the sidelines so perhaps throw your energy into getting your preferred rosette colour elected, then worry about who’s in charge. If the Tories have shown us one thing, you definitely don’t need to keep the same leader in place.

Vote Labour, they'll be better. How? No idea - you just have to be-lieve. The political landscape reimagined as a faith based belief system, joy.

@ACynicalDad this is where I am at. I don't trust him, I don't actually think he is committed to serving his country. I think he's a shapeshifter who will do and say anything (including at one time supporting Jeremy Corbyn) to get into positions of power. That doesn't make him any different from many other politicians. But it doesn't make him the saviour of politics that some seem to think he is.

And being less bad than someone else will never be a vote winner in my books, no matter how ideological that sounds.

This is how Labour were better last time....
https://www.shrewsburylabour.org.uk/labours-top-50-achievements/

It's impossible to compare Labour this time with Labour last time. There just isn't the money available.

The only true comparison is Blair and Starmer are both wily political operatives.

So you're not on the fence trying to decide at all?

Yep, you give me Blair, Brown, Blunkett, Straw and Preston and you'd have my vote. With, y'know policies, and without the gender woo bollocks.

It is possible to compare Labour last time with the performance of the Tories over the last 14 years.

If the Tories had used their time wisely in the service of the country they would be campaigning on their multiple achievements and highlighting their impeccable integrity. They are not. That speaks volumes.

@Churchview I think you're trying to find something that just isn't there. I've been really clear about my position. I don't want to vote for anyone, and I probably won't. But I'm conflicted about that.

It's really hard having an honest debate these days on MN without people assuming you have dishonest intentions. I don't. I just want to understand who and what I'm voting for.

Again, it's not. There wasn't a level playing field, economically speaking. We don't know what Labour would have done if they'd stayed in power in 2010, probably not introduced austerity and possibly it would have turned out better as a result.

But what you re doing is the Tories job for them... dressing it up as they are same the same... unable (dont want too) to realise that things have changed, yes the aims are the same but we no longer have the money.

But what you really want is another 5 years of shit for the UK.

Why did you choose that particular user name @JimBobsWife? If you don’t mind my asking.

@thefireplace I've not said anywhere that anyone should vote Tory. Quite the opposite. I have not said anything positive about the Tories. How am I doing their job for them?

Then you're going to have to read the manifestos like the rest of us.

If you started (and continued) your thread with something less provocative you would have had a whole difference experience here I believe.

I doubt it.

But 14 years? There should be something to show for it? The money that's gone through their hands? What they could have done. It's a shame and people are suffering.

Try it.

You re attacking Starmer or as you'd put it "an honest debate" whilst not considering he isn't in Govt, aims are the same and now there isn't the money... and as evidence of you suggesting he is a liar, present a far right tweet.

Hardly "honest" is it?

I don't want to be accused of 'leaving the thread' as if it's mine to keep going forever more, but I really do have to do some work.

Thanks for the debate - I do value it. I want to be able to vote (I think it's so important we do) but have never felt so conflicted about who to vote for (except Boris v JC).

It's deeply frustrating, isn't it? It's like being on a plane where the meal choices are a slightly dry chicken dish or a steaming pile of dog shit, and complaining that the chicken doesn't look good and you'd rather have filet mignon. Of course you would - but filet mignon isn't on the menu for this meal and there's no prospect of getting it until the flight is over. Your choices are chicken or dog shit and if you don't choose one, someone else will choose for you and since you've spent all your time complaining about the dry chicken they might fairly conclude that your preference is for the dog shit...

@blackberryhill thank you I love that analogy!

Well you’re not going to get someone else. Did you join the Labour Party in 2020 so you could vote for your choice. I did. You had the same opportunity.

Tetchy!

Prescott?

Anyway I agree - these men seem like real serious statesmen compared to the politicians we have now.