ok, lets actually have a quick vote on the Compulsory National Service at 18 idea

[cannonballz]

I dont think any of the threads running have an actual poll. I can't believe anyone would go along with enforced labour of 18 year olds, particularly when dictated by someone so immensely wealthy, privileged and so utterly out of touch.

Lets see

It's clearly a ridiculous idea.
I don't quite get the timescale for the volunteering option. For military service it's a full year. For community service it says it's one weekend a month, it says 25 days per year. For how many years though? * *

Anyway, this will clearly be another nail in the Tories' coffin. What a bunch of chumps.

Am I missing something? The proposed scheme isn't aimed at young people like your children.

Yes, you are missing something. It would be compulsory for all 18 year-olds.

Young adults have enough trouble getting a start in life as it is. Now we are telling them they need to postpone their careers or degrees by 12 months or give up one weekend a month for free labour. Exactly how is this going to help them pay off their ridiculous student debts in the future? How will this help them to save for a house deposit?

Congratulations young people. Not only is your life harder than ours in every aspect, we are now fucking you over even more by taking away even more of your free time to prevent you from studying or working as much as you need to.

We have created an economic environment where young people need to grind and hustle constantly to get ahead, and now we are planning on shackling them so they can't even do that.

I despair at how this country treats the next generation.

I'm slightly right of centre and think this is a daft idea. The forces simply would not want a bunch of unwilling kids to train.

I think Rishi sees the 18 year olds as free labour to be honest. He wants them to do things they don't have to pay anyone else to do.

Lots of 18 year olds have jobs. Does he want them to give up their jobs, so other adults are applying for these, therefore manipulating employment statistics?

A small proportion of 18 years are parents or carers. Will they be exempt? Same with people in the armed forces and certain employment sectors.

I don’t think it’s a good idea, but I do think some young people have become split off from society. That often means their path in life follows a certain course. If they could have more support that would be good, but I think it would need to start earlier than 18 and would be a big and costly scheme.

Someone mentioned the DoE Awards. Yes, something like that or volunteering would be good. Of course, many teens do that already - volunteering for charities, volunteering for the Arts, etc etc - but the ones who need it most don’t, and that’s not always because of a lack of willing.

yes, you are missing the exact point of what is being proposed.
The scheme would be MANDATORY for ALL 18 year olds.
So that would include my current 16 yr old DS. He would be forced to opt for either 12 months full time in the millatary or one weekend a month of community service for 12 months. There would be sanctions (although not clear what yet) if he refused.
I am hopeful my current 18 yr old would be above intended age if it came in,and thankful my other children are most likely above any intended age now, but my 16 year old would very much be effected by it. His life choices would be different (eg uni etc) and he would be being compelled to do something which would negatively imapct him by a governament that has already done so much to nagtively imapct his future life prospects.

is it 1st April?

very few countries have national service now
Reality Check: Which countries have military service? - BBC News

This is simply untrue, I’ve wept buckets this week due to my year 11 and 13 classes leaving. They are neither rude nor insolent and are very good company. Many of them volunteer and are decent human beings. This scheme is utter nonsense and those that vote for it will likely assume it in 2 years of hard graft.

I have been a Tory party member for most of my adult life. I was already wavering towards not voting at this election now I’m voting Labour.

In almost all cases I don’t think forcing people to do military or community service when they’ve done nothing wrong is acceptable.

It’s also just appallingly thought out. Those that don’t do military have to give up a weekend a month - what about Saturday jobs that pretty much all people that age who aren’t lucky enough to have parents who can back them financially? They are talking about the service being in the fire, police and NHS. I want those services properly funded not propped up by unwilling, forced, untrained labour. I also don’t want the actually trained staff having to babysit all these people. And are we also delaying university for a year and cancelling all options of gap years? And what kind of massive, expensive bureaucracy is going to be needed to administer this?

And don’t get me started on calling the non-military service “volunteering”. It’s not volunteering if it’s compulsory.

I have young kids, if this policy gets through we’ll be leaving the country before they are 18 - thankfully it won’t because the tories are going to crash and burn.

i doubt the army could afford it!

The most politically stupid thing about this policy is that the only policy Labour have put forward that I have seen cause real concern is VAT on private school fees. Private school parents would be concerned about a Labour government because of this.

And so the Tories announce mandatory national service?

Those private school parents who may have voted conservative over school fees are now faced with the choice of their kids in a state school, or in the army.

Mad.

Not really, pretty much every news/police thread online about a crime or problem involving teens has at least one person saying "Bring back National Service!" with a bunch of likes.

It's very on brand with the whole British Empire, world-beating narrative.

It's far more popular than say the Rwanda idea.

I live in Italy and my dh has done National Service but they repealed it (I think about 20 years ago?) so my sons don’t have to. It was extremely expensive to run with very little advantage. Those who declared that they were pacifist could do community service instead - but again this was really hard to run well. We had one lad at work who basically did photocopies for us for a year as "community service". The problem is that most charities don’t want extra reluctant teenagers foisted on them - it just creates hassle. And it’s not really fair to expect everyone to do military training.

My ds19 has already done a lot of volunteer work off his own back and has also done the equivalent of D of E through the scouts. Why should he have to give up even more time? I see no problem in encouraging these options, but forcing? No!

Finally, my dh has fond memories of NS (even though he broke his hand!) but that’s the sort of person he is. I think many teenagers would find it traumatic rather than character building - I know people who absolutely hated it.

this is not compulsory @cannonballz

It is compulsory. The "choice" is between joining the military or working for free

it is not compulsory

@noblegiraffe

Both VAT on private school fees (which would cost more to raise than it took back in tax revenues) and national service (where exactly is the money going to come from?) are ill thought through populist policies that are a really dumb idea in practice but voters love 'em!

I don't really care what form national service is. It is the mandated nature and lack of respect for your citizens. To me it is a step backwards in democracy.

Yes plenty of countries have it. I also know in 99% of the countries if you have money you can avoid it.

To me it feels like a very very slippery slope. If we don't understand human nature by now, that mandated actions cause disengagement and can in extreme cases lead to radicals then society is worse than I suspected.

They can't and are against the idea.

I had pt jobs from 16, alongside school. I learned various skills there, but I did it because I wanted to. The thought of being made to do something because some government I couldn't even vote for told me to is bringing back my teenage rage.

You're not going to fix society by pushing 18 yr old into service.

You help and guide kids before they get to the point where society deems them a menace, so you don't get 9yr olds looking after weapons and 14 yr olds using schools as dealing grounds. But that involves money.

More info is required about what it would actually consist of. At the moment I don’t think it’s necessarily the worst idea ever.

The only people who would benefit are a handful of entrepreneurs who would set up schemes running these programmes for the govt to outsource to (like Euan Blair with apprenticeships). They will make millions while much needed resources are diverted into their pockets. The service will do nothing for the teenagers, community or society.
Doesn’t matter as Conservatives are headed for a drubbing.

As many have said how would that work when most of the 18 year old I know work weekends? My 16year old volunteers, and has done for years. I volunteered in the past too (it's only volunteering if it's voluntary!) I think bring it in for anyone over 18 if people think it's great idea and they would vote for it
you do it too, happy days for all!