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General election 2024

National Service if Tories are re-elected

1000 replies

MaryMaryVeryContrary · 25/05/2024 22:13

Thoughts? 🍿 Grin

OP posts:
Thread gallery
19
HildasLostSock · 26/05/2024 09:05

Well, my dad has been banging on about how they should bring national service back most of my life (he's 76, so he's been talking about it for a while - I saw in the BBC that it ended in 1960 though so he never had to do national service to my slight surprise given his enthusiasm for it. He did serve in the armed forces to be fair & late FIL ditto on both counts) so he'll be happy. Personally I think well the army aren't baby sitters (not that 18 year olds are babies but...and maybe I'm just hearing my dad's voice here...it's a policy meant to sort the "young un's" out the wastrals! & presumably keep them off the streets or whatever) but there's a reason why they have a recruitment process and won't take just anybody. I think the armed forces have enough problems as it is without foisting thousands of people who don't want to be there on them, and who probably won't learn much either because...they don't want to be there... If life was indeed better/more civic minded back in the "good ole days" I suspect it had as much to do with the war and general cultural values at the time as national service. I wasn't around then though so its just a guess!

fridgegrazer · 26/05/2024 09:05

LanternL1ght5 · 26/05/2024 09:02

My children’s grandparents are in their 80s and don’t want it either.

My parents wouldn't have wanted it either - they both died in the pandemic. Even my Dad who was born in 1929 and did National Service was too young to have fought in the war. They didn't vote Tory and none of us voted for Brexit - but of course we are all right wing gammons hey ho.

LanternL1ght5 · 26/05/2024 09:06

MaryMaryVeryContrary · 26/05/2024 08:59

This is where I am. We do have a huge NEETs problem and some people seem to make excuses about why they can’t do anything and I feel like any scheme implemented would fail because they simply wouldn’t turn up or feel like it’s their right to claim benefits and not to anything if they don’t want to.

I can’t think how else to give them a kick up the arse?

I have a NEET who has been battling mental illness caused by lockdown and strung out because of the dire state of services. She needs a specific therapy and there is nothing anywhere, 2 year wait.How will this help, is already battling diagnosed PTSD?

What she wants is treatment and to be back in college. How come there is billions for this but none for MH?

WoshPank · 26/05/2024 09:06

Workasateamanddoitmyway · 26/05/2024 08:54

Do you think Israel and Ukraine are unusual specific cases in history? And that the UK couldn't be invaded? By Russia or even by China as they are looking a bit punchy at the moment? And only a country that borders your own would invade? Im not sure history bears that out. I also thought that our nuclear sub test didn't go that well....

If Article 5 was invoked we are all in the firing line as we are all the enemy of any attacker of a NATO country and fair game.

Edited

They're not unusual for societies that have an enemy who wants to kill them on the same piece of land and no natural frontiers in the middle, no. Ie, not the UK. The greater the distance between an invader and a country they want to invade, the less likely they are to pull it off absent a huge difference in technology available like the Spanish and the Incas etc.

And no, I don't think there's the remotest likelihood of Russia and China attempting to invade the UK. You may have noticed that Russia's most recent land invasion hasn't quite gone to plan. When they try and target us, and you must know that's what Russia have been doing, they use more sophisticated methods. The sort that a load of unwilling, possibly hungover adolescents aren't going to be much use countering. I'd be more worried about them trying to target the infrastructure, which can be done without any boots getting anywhere near us.

It's actually really important to be clear about this, because our Article 5 obligations are important and we do need to firm up our defence. Imbecile pronouncements about compulsory national service from Sunak aren't the answer to this, they're an attempt to distract from it. Because then we might start asking questions about what the fuck his party have been doing for the last decade and a half.

LuluBlakey1 · 26/05/2024 09:06

Carly944 · 26/05/2024 09:04

I was just thinking, if I was 18, I would like to do it.

It'd feel like an honour helping my country for a year.

And I would be doing my grandad ( who fought in world war two) proud

You've fallen for it!
Has it convinced you to 'Vote Rishi! He'll Sort the Country Out!' ?

Carly944 · 26/05/2024 09:06

How will they get the 18 year olds volunteering one weekend a month, if the 18 year old are at college though?

Most college students have to work at weekends

MistressoftheDarkSide · 26/05/2024 09:06

I don't think the Tories are so stupid to think that those who grew up in the late 60s and onwards will be behind this surely? A huge number still have their anarchy bones - they protested the Vietnam war, they joined CND, and their parents were either active in WW2 or affected by the fall out. My 84 year old Dad, ex-navy is opposed. I do wonder whether the days of the guaranteed elderly vote have gone ?

willWillSmithsmith · 26/05/2024 09:07

LuluBlakey1 · 26/05/2024 09:04

I agree but that isn't what this is about.
This is about winning back elderly and middle-aged Tory voters in the heartlands. Just as their notion about getting rid of the National Insurance is just about winning votes.
If they had the long-term security of the country and the health and welfare of the nation at heart they would be having an honest conversation about how much more tax we should all be paying- especially the most wealthy- to pay for increased defence spending, pensions, NHS, education, social housing.

Lots of middle aged voters will have young adult children. Lots of elderlies will have young adult gc. I honestly don’t know who in their right mind would vote for Tories based on this policy.

Carly944 · 26/05/2024 09:07

LuluBlakey1 · 26/05/2024 09:06

You've fallen for it!
Has it convinced you to 'Vote Rishi! He'll Sort the Country Out!' ?

No I said that I personally would like to do it.

It doesn't mean that I think every 18 year old should do it.

It should be an option.

No one should be forced

Workasateamanddoitmyway · 26/05/2024 09:07

I think if the prospect of war increases people will be more inclined to go for training just out of self-preservation. Either you get conscripted and have to fight untrained or with a few weeks training (as could and has happened before) or you do National Service and at least know how to fire a gun.

Currently there's grumbles of war but nothing that will imminently frighten us and long, long may it stay that way thanks, having two teenage boys myself.

So it's a judgement call for any party including Labour. Try and get everyone shipshape now in good time but have a big battle about Saturday jobs etc or wait until the possibility that war is imminent and everyone is scared and desperate for training to defend themselves but there's no time to do it.

ConsistentlyInconsistant · 26/05/2024 09:07

And I would be doing my grandad ( who fought in world war two) proud

My grandad fought in WWII, was a POW in Japan for 4 years and suffered horrendous torture, abuse and disease. Am certain he wouldn't want his great grandchildren to experience that.

Mirabai · 26/05/2024 09:07

Aside from the ludicrousness of Rishi proposing this before deserting the sinking ship - around 30% of teens are overweight or obese. How does the military propose dealing with that?

Proserphina · 26/05/2024 09:08

ConsistentlyInconsistant · 26/05/2024 09:03

I am the only one who thinks the Tories want to lose this election? The timing and now crazy shit like this and flights to Rwanda. Pretty sure these are not top of most people's concerns right now.
Has he forgotten older voters likely have grand children/great grandchildren? And he will lose the votes of parents. I'm sure they want to lose. Otherwise how about tackling the horrendous cost of living, housing crisis, total lack of public services. Is anyone going to tackle these?

Funny you say this, was just thinking it all feels a bit like the episode of Father Ted, where Ireland, desperate not to end up hosting the Eurovision SC for a further year, selects Father Ted and Dougal as their entry to sing the composition they penned, 'My Lovely Horse'.

runningpram · 26/05/2024 09:08

i agree that it wont be thought out or funded though and kids will probably end up getting in debt to do it

GiantTagliatelle · 26/05/2024 09:08

Anonymouslyposting · 26/05/2024 08:47

I have been a Tory party member for most of my adult life. I was already wavering towards not voting at this election because they’ve been so awful but now I’m voting Labour.

In almost all cases I don’t think forcing people to do military or community service when they’ve done nothing wrong is acceptable.

It’s also just appallingly thought out. Those that don’t do military have to give up a weekend a month - what about Saturday jobs that pretty much all people that age who aren’t lucky enough to have parents who can back them financially? They are talking about the service being in the fire, police and NHS. I want those services properly funded not propped up by unwilling, forced, untrained labour. I also don’t want the actually trained staff having to babysit all these people. And are we also delaying university for a year and cancelling all options of gap years? And what kind of massive, expensive bureaucracy is going to be needed to administer this?

And don’t get me started on calling the non-military service “volunteering”. It’s not volunteering if it’s compulsory.

I have young kids, if this policy gets through we’ll be leaving the country before they are 18 - thankfully it won’t because the tories are going to crash and burn.

Totally agree. Add to that a policy that they’ve never had the chance to vote for. I have also been on the fence between four parties (con/lab/lib/green) and now my vote is set. I will be voting Lib Dem as they stand the most chance of kicking out the Tory candidate in my area.

if it’s being put to a vote across the population then the whole population should have to do it.

Well done rishi!

Simonjt · 26/05/2024 09:08

Carly944 · 26/05/2024 09:04

I was just thinking, if I was 18, I would like to do it.

It'd feel like an honour helping my country for a year.

And I would be doing my grandad ( who fought in world war two) proud

Helping the country do what?

If you wanted to do your grandad proud why haven’t you joined the reserves?

MaryMaryVeryContrary · 26/05/2024 09:08

LanternL1ght5 · 26/05/2024 09:06

I have a NEET who has been battling mental illness caused by lockdown and strung out because of the dire state of services. She needs a specific therapy and there is nothing anywhere, 2 year wait.How will this help, is already battling diagnosed PTSD?

What she wants is treatment and to be back in college. How come there is billions for this but none for MH?

I’m not being rude but lockdowns weren’t unpleasant, just very dull and frustrating. The public have weathered adversity without dropping out of society for thousands of years.

There are so many people piling on to MH and ND waiting lists it’s not surprising they can’t keep up with it, although the cuts haven’t helped.

OP posts:
LuluBlakey1 · 26/05/2024 09:09

LanternL1ght5 · 26/05/2024 09:06

I have a NEET who has been battling mental illness caused by lockdown and strung out because of the dire state of services. She needs a specific therapy and there is nothing anywhere, 2 year wait.How will this help, is already battling diagnosed PTSD?

What she wants is treatment and to be back in college. How come there is billions for this but none for MH?

She'll love it. It'll give her a backbone. Lots of teamwork, discipline, fresh air and fun. No time for introspection. Lovely serge uniform provided free- all in it together.

decionsdecisions62 · 26/05/2024 09:09

@Cattenberg what? Quality of the public! What does that even mean?

TheFirmBiscuit · 26/05/2024 09:09

justasking111 · 26/05/2024 09:03

There's one great big hole in Sunaks argument. The MOD move at glacial speed approving recruitment candidates that it's in a fine mess. They've farmed it out to a private company by all accounts. They've sold/leased out barracks.

We really don't have the capability to organise this. Watching Russia they don't either.

£5.5. billion on a tank that is a complete and utter disaster. I'm with Private Frasier on this one !

https://www.forces.net/technology/land-vehicles/trouble-hit-ajax-light-tank-complete-and-utter-disaster-ex-top-brass-says

Trouble-hit Ajax light tank 'a complete and utter disaster', ex-top brass says

The Ajax project has been running for 12 years and cost £3.2 billion but has failed to deliver a single deployable vehicle.

https://www.forces.net/technology/land-vehicles/trouble-hit-ajax-light-tank-complete-and-utter-disaster-ex-top-brass-says

decionsdecisions62 · 26/05/2024 09:10

Yes let's hold their education back even further than Covid did by sending them to learn how to fight other people!

jamimmi · 26/05/2024 09:10

Batshit crazy and desperate. I have a 17yr old. If I had been a tory voter I wouldn't any more. 1 weekd a month, what about working at uni to support your abysmally low loan. Can't see employers letting them off any weekend ,just won't employ them . As for the jobs how exactly will they train these kids and actually make them usfull over 25 days or 3 months! Dd just listen to James Clevely apparently to encourage mixing of society she asked what he thought school & collage did. Unless perhaps you've been in an elite private school.

WoshPank · 26/05/2024 09:10

MaryMaryVeryContrary · 26/05/2024 09:08

I’m not being rude but lockdowns weren’t unpleasant, just very dull and frustrating. The public have weathered adversity without dropping out of society for thousands of years.

There are so many people piling on to MH and ND waiting lists it’s not surprising they can’t keep up with it, although the cuts haven’t helped.

Lockdowns were in fact extremely unpleasant for some people. Your personal definition of what it was like is just that- a personal definition. Entirely subjective.

Carly944 · 26/05/2024 09:11

Simonjt · 26/05/2024 09:08

Helping the country do what?

If you wanted to do your grandad proud why haven’t you joined the reserves?

Its my choice what I want to do. Why are you telling me what to do? I've no idea who you are, so you mean nothing to me.

You do what you want. And I'll do what I want.

MeinKraft · 26/05/2024 09:11

Sunak is determined not to win this election lol. Bet he fancies a nice summer in the Maldives and that's why every time he thinks he might accidentally win the bugger he comes out with something ever more outlandish Grin

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