National Service if Tories are re-elected

[MaryMaryVeryContrary]

Thoughts? 🍿

'We'll bring back National Service!', 'We'll sort out the 'illegal' immigration problem!' , 'We'll make sure only the 'worthy' claim 'benefits'!'. I think these sort of hard-line Tory statements are only to be expected in the run up to a general election. The other parties will have their own market cries.

The problem with the soundbites is that they actually detract from the very real situations they seek to rectify. For example, as a nation do we need National Service, or do we need some way of ensuring that we have military forces that could actually defend the country (our own or allied)? Is the problem with immigration more the fact that the government has made so much of it 'illegal'? Do we need to target benefit claimants, or would it be better to try to work out how to deal with the issues that lead to under-employment.

I also see that Labour are still talking about a 'National Care Service', which may be a lovely idea, but ... how?

In Thailand where 2 years national srevice at 20 is compulsory - they have a ballot system where you have a 50:50 chance by picking a ball out of a bag. All the rich buy their way out it costs about £1000 and many,many young men become ladyboys either for real or to escape the draft. So it ends up being the poor ones who effectiveley have no choice. They seem to spend most of their time doing menial work for the corrupt rich officers who use them as skivvies.

Rishi clearly has a death wish

Wtaf

I'm not in favour of NS, but many of us had Sat and holiday jobs at 13 in the 80s. Was more unusual not to, otherwise you couldn't buy clothes and records. And Marathons (Snickers for the younger crowd).

Does the government really think the younger generations, with their gender and MH issues are going to be better or equal soldiers than properly trained ones who choose to join. In this day and age it’s technology that should be fighting wars not youngsters who already feel unwanted by politicians.

Is Rishi sending his own kids ?

In Norway, National Service is no longer compulsory. Kids have to apply to do it and its seen as a great thing and really aspirational. Lots of kids are really keen to do it. I suppose if it all kicks off here I'd like my kids to stand a chance and know something about what to do; they do CCF anyway so presumably it will be similar. I'd do it myself if I wasn't so weedy and need the loo all the time (menopause and failure to do kegals)

One of the best movie speeches ever did the same thing....

You missed out all the young women they have trained.

He can't even get a fucking airplane to Rwanda. His flagship policy that has failed slow and failed hard (£370m wasted, hard).

Like heck will he be able to organise a big scheme like this. He's next to useless.

The man has small talent and should aim small.

Bring back National Service! It might knock some sense into the beer guzzling, cannabis smoking, entitled ‘woke’ snowflakes of today. There’s no respect for anyone in this country anymore. The western world is too soft. Poor mental health and ‘human rights’ is used as an excuse for abusive, criminal behaviour. God help us if we do go to war because the majority of people in the UK would not cope. People in the UK get upset if someone says a ‘trans woman’ is not a real biological woman despite the biological facts - it then gets debated how we label public toilets. Teachers are being assaulted in schools. Other countries don’t put up with this bullshit. People in the UK need a kick up the arse.

You're absolutely right and I am presuming national service would be appropriate to this day and age so teaching them whatever skills they needed to fight whatever war was likely to happen. I mean some of them might be trained in nuclear technology/preventing cyber attacks and some might be trained in practical aspects to put society back together again afterwards and some might have medical/first aid training for injuries caused by fallout from nuclear blast etc.

So still training/national service but not the same as back in the thirties /forties although I think the second war world was fought by tank/in the air rather than on foot and of course we had the first nuclear bomb back then (america dropping it on the japanese).

It’s the latest what will be a long line of increasingly desperate, ill-thought through hardline Tory “headline grabbers”. The sound of the barrel being scraped is now deafening.

It is a bit if a strange announcement just to plop out there like that. But I don't think it means that all our dc are going to be forced to join the services for a year when they get to 18. I think there will be only 30,000 places for that. I am not sure if that figure includes some working in cybersecurity.

I imagine most 18 year olds would do the 1 weekend a month volunteering option. For some, that wouldn't be a bad thing.

I would need to see more detail before knowing if it was workable.

i think public service for young adults is a great idea. In many European counties boarder controls , ambulance drivers etc are National Service . But I do think the armed forces really takes a huge commitment from an individual and am
pretty sure those professionals are not Interested in baby sitting young adults who don’t want to be there.

Another shit Tory idea.
You know that this will lean more to cannon fodder for the Army.
In all honesty, if they paid better there would be more young people in the Army, as it’s still viewed as an attractive prospect for many kids, because of the training they receive there.

I have worked front line emergency services in my past, last thing I would have wanted is to drag around a reluctant bunch of 18 year olds all weekend, and it’s not logistically possible, so I think it’s more likely that they would be shipped to hospitals to do the “menial” work that they struggle to get done.

Personally I see it as a way to get work done for free, and I’m pretty sure that next it will be all UC claimants must also do something similar or lose benefits.

The line “or they will face non criminal sanctions” is so clearly money, and 18 year old who needs UC will be sanctioned that way, or they will lose money off their Uni grant, but somewhere this will involve removing money from them.

The rich will be able to avoid it for their kids, because financial sanctions won’t hurt them or arrange plum roles that advance prospects, those kids will not be cleaning out bedpans, changing beds and being the dogsbody.

If we need to up our army, then we need to address the fact army numbers are cut year on year, recruit for it, pay properly for it and stop trying to find a cheap back door way to increase numbers.

It doesn't make a difference. As the saying goes, of every 30 soldiers:

10 are too incompetent to be there
10 are okay
10 are actually good and the ones that help you win.

Surely the monthly 'volunteering' thing will make the NHS, Police, Fire services, etc, even worse if they have to spend their weekend shifts babysitting, it will be like work experience but for short periods all year round.

Labour is bringing in the vote for 16 years old it's firm policy.

My hot take is that some kind of national service for school-leavers is not a terrible idea per se. My husband did it in his country and though we are both left-wing Green voters, he says it was a huge social leveller, bringing people from all social backgrounds into contact and giving NEETs useful skills.

That said, I have a bunch of caveats. It wouldn't need to be military / army-related: you could easily imagine several categories to choose from, like environment / social care / culture. A year is probably too long. Make it 6 months either in a go or two week stints over a couple of years.

Make sure the kids are paid and housed properly. Make sure they're not taking jobs away from people. And above all, don't entrust the management to some shitty investment fund.

Do I think the Tories are capable of doing anything even remotely properly thought out? Of course fucking not.

Let’s bring back hanging too ! And rationing ! And maybe slavery !

Nuclear war means we are all wiped out including the first to fire so only a nutter would start one. Ukraine shows old fashioned ways of fighting wars are still very much relevant and it's not beyond the realms of possibility we might need to fight a defensive land war one day. A terrible thought.

Exactly this. I knew there was a connection between this and lockdown before I even read it. They want us to feel "we could still force you to do things", while dressing it up as "national spirit". The same national spirit (alcohol) that Saint Boris and his merry men quaffed at their lockdown parties.

They're testing to see if the public will accept being micromanaged by the government, like they were during lockdown. Remember how they tested the public reaction with press releases? "Masks might become compulsory in shops." "Vaxports might become mandatory." Then they'd sit back and watch the public reaction.

My grandparents are late 80’s and never did national service. I can’t believe there’s many alive who did, and I can’t believe many of them would be for it either.