Even if Labour win the GE the media will start undermining from day one…

[Lottelenya]

Bet your bottom dollar that any false step or U turn as a new government learns more about the actual economic situation they inherit, will be trumpeted as failure and a sign of incompetence. The right wing media is so all powerful it can easily mould public opinion anyway it pleases. It’s only when the population is directly affected by events like CoL crisis, Party-gate, shit in the sea and rivers etc that they start to think for themselves and question how reality differs from what’s propaganda.
Back in the day when I was young and politically disengaged I remember seeing headlines about the EU president using call girls. It for a second disgusted me and my opinion was that EU membership was a bad thing if they were as corrupt as him. Obviously years later I realised that this was just the EU baiting so commonplace and insidious in the UK press. If I hadn’t read more I’d have been none the wiser.
So I’m actually feeling quite concerned about a Labour victory knowing what they are up against. The mud slinging will start immediately and we’re back to square one…

In response to this and addition to my post above, I agree it's just as dangerous to believe MSM never tells the truth as it is to believe it always does.

I saw a very good defence of it along the lines of, yes, it has its biases, but only MSM has, for example, the budget to have lots of people on the ground straight away when and where things are happening. Only it has the resources to run months-long investigations into certain stories that are fact-checked and use multiple sources. It's always worth remembering that.

@Lottelenya

Some Tories wanted Brexit. Others like Cameron were totally against it. Selling staying in the EU was like selling a rotten tomato to an electorate brainwashed by Farage. Even if people felt they didn't like immigrants, or blamed the EU for everything, they did not fully understand the harm exiting the EU would bring. Our seat at the top tables worldwide for a start. No USA president is interested in UK now.

Sensible Tories understood the economic position. Also the utter waste of time Brexit was going to be in the legislative timetable. Then followed by Covid which used up money and time. Did Labour ever take much of a pro EU stance? Corbyn was anti EU as much of old Labour was.

@Echobelly

Neither do I want a press not being critical of any government! We need a free press and we take a bit of rough to protect the investigations and campaigns that are very worthwhile.

Let's not pretend that Corbyn isn't a massive eurosceptic! He mounted no decent opposition to Brexit at all.

Lottelenya

Left-wing press here:

Dec 2022
Calls for EU reform after five arrested in Qatar corruption inquiry
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/dec/10/calls-for-eu-reform-after-five-arrested-in-qatar-corruption-inquiry

February 2024
One in four MEPs is implicated in judicial cases or scandals
https://www.lemonde.fr/en/les-decodeurs/article/2024/02/02/one-in-four-meps-are-implicated-in-judicial-cases-or-scandals_6486917_8.html

April 2024
22 arrested over suspected €600 million EU Covid fund fraud
https://www.lemonde.fr/en/europe/article/2024/04/04/22-arrested-over-suspected-600-million-euro-eu-covid-fund-fraud_6667369_143.html

April 2024
Belgium investigates alleged Russian payments to MEPs
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/12/belgium-investigates-alleged-russian-payments-to-meps

Sorry @Clavinova what does that prove ? Sadly you have no cred re politics. Just cut and paste.

@SofaThrow he said he voted to remain. You’ll be denying the existence of the ERG soon. Most in the red wall who voted for the tories in 2019 did so because they were recognised as the instigators of Brexit. It was their pet project. I’ll grant there were a few labour MPs like Kate Hoey and Gisela Stuart, Frank Field, and even a few union leaders, who campaigned for leave but they were pretty much side lined afterwards. Nope I think most of the public see it as a failed Tory endeavour.

I didn't say it wasn't a failed Tory endeavour but do not pretend that Corbyn isn't a rather vocal eurosceptic because that would be laughable!

Lottelenya
Sorry @ Clavinova what does that prove?

Pretty obvious - you complained about the right-wing media, plus you thought the EU had received unfair criticism. Were you aware of the recent corruption scandals rocking the EU? I linked to articles from the left-wing press.

@Lottelenya you are the clueless one and obvs haven't read my post properly:

1. I never said I was a northerner I have lived here 2 years and very much a southerner as lived there 54 years!
2. Yes I know all the probs I cited happened under the tories I called them an utter shower so obvs don't rate them! I said the tories in the 80s were far more competent.
3. If you are younger I can see why you might think new Labour was better they reaped the reward of the golden economy the 90s tories left them but didn't use that to plan ahead or invest in infrastructure but wasted alot on child trust funds etc.
4. Not going to get into brexit but IMHO the EU was set up for the interests of big Corporates and rich people and very much doesn't benefit the working classes which is why old style lefties like Tony Benn and Corbyn were against it. And posh rich gits like Cameron and Osborne were in favour of it.

@Northernnature I’m not young by any means. And yes New Labour were on the whole pretty decent.
How you can bang on about Thatcher being a good thing and then moan about the EU being there merely to protect the interests of big business is a bit far fetched. Thatcher was the biggest neo liberal of all. The fact that most of our public utilities are now owned by foreign enterprises is due to her and her acolytes. Wealthy bankers like Crispin Odey (he who shorted the pound), disaster capitalists like Rees Mogg, privileged Tory MPs all wanted us to leave the EU. David Cameron was lukewarm towards the EU and did little to promote the good it did.
If you can’t see what a mess parts of up here are because of Tory austerity well you ain’t travelled much beyond Cheshire I guess.

Yes well @Lottelenya you ain't seen nothing yet wr austerity. When will people realise there is no money and the world doesn't owe the uk a living - we are something like 21st gdp per capita and falling fast. Eastern European countries such as Poland are overtaking us as work harder and don't have our generous welfare (including state pensions) and our 5m on out of work benefits. Thatchers idea was we would all own shares in utilities (eg tell Sid if you remember that). It was your beloved New Labour who sold em off to foreign countries eg gas to EDF. One of Thatchers mistakes was to sell off water I agree but new Labour could have reprivatised when there was plenty of funds in the coffers (as they could have with other utilities) but chose to largely waste their golden inheritance economy on buying votes and not build our own nuclear power etc. and plan ahead like other countries do. Policies largely carried on by present awful tories.

Why is there no money ? Apparently we are skint and we’ve nothing to show for it. Everything is in disarray unless ofc you live in a nice wealthy area with few
demands on council spending.
I know what Thatcher was like with her obsession with Ayn Rand and free market capitalism which was obvs a busted flush.

@Lottelenya

How can you be so ridiculous?! Even better off areas have little money. No extra money is directed to them from government. They have schools and older people too. And potholes!! And people who need hospitals. I suggest you get out and about a bit more.

The reason we have no money is massive COVID borrowing, a hugely expensive benefit and NHS system and not enough tax being paid because too few people work. Plus we have had poor productivity so we have not grown the economy to meet our needs. We have huge borrowing commitments and they are nearly our gdp. So no more borrowing! So not enough money.

Cameron supported staying in Europe . The big problem was selling the economic reasons for doing so to a largely economic illiterate nation. We still have millions who think the public purse is totally elastic and deeper than the Pacific. Few are hugely wealthy. Others make the best of what they have. Labour tried taxing at 90% in the 60s. (I think it was) and it decimated entrepreneurship and striving to do better. What's the point? Blair understood the pitfalls. Starmer might do too. We shall see.

I don’t see that - the BBC have less reach these days and their journalists certainly give oppositions MPs a harder time than Tories. And then there’s Question time…

Question Time is problematic. All the opposition parties are lined up against the party in power so it's inevitably unbalanced. Unfortunately Fiona Bruce lets politicians get away with not answering the question (as happened repeatedly last week) so you don't learn much. All the participants do is attack the government by and large. Fiona Bruce also interrupts a lot with her own questions and the audience doesn't get much of a look in.

The mainstream media is not influential with younger people. As we now know with Sunak and TikTok.

I thought Sunak promised voters in Tunbridge wells last year that he would funnel money back to better off areas from the North ?
Local councils of wealthy areas don’t have the same financial demands upon them as those on poorer areas. Austerity hit poorer areas harder. Fact. It’s well documented.
I think you need to get out of your ivory tower and travel beyond the south east and islands of prosperity like Harrogate or wherever you’ve spent a holiday. People can’t work often because the NHS isn’t functioning and they are waiting for treatment.
And yes there were huge amounts of corruption with Covid bounce back loans and furlough which ironically the Tories aren’t bothered about. Blame issues surrounding economic stagnation and poor GDP on the Tories and their Brexit who incidentally have been in power 14 years. Maybe you weren’t aware ? Keep up.