Even if Labour win the GE the media will start undermining from day one…

[Lottelenya]

Bet your bottom dollar that any false step or U turn as a new government learns more about the actual economic situation they inherit, will be trumpeted as failure and a sign of incompetence. The right wing media is so all powerful it can easily mould public opinion anyway it pleases. It’s only when the population is directly affected by events like CoL crisis, Party-gate, shit in the sea and rivers etc that they start to think for themselves and question how reality differs from what’s propaganda.
Back in the day when I was young and politically disengaged I remember seeing headlines about the EU president using call girls. It for a second disgusted me and my opinion was that EU membership was a bad thing if they were as corrupt as him. Obviously years later I realised that this was just the EU baiting so commonplace and insidious in the UK press. If I hadn’t read more I’d have been none the wiser.
So I’m actually feeling quite concerned about a Labour victory knowing what they are up against. The mud slinging will start immediately and we’re back to square one…

@SpaghettiWithaYeti can you give us an example of a tory politician who has said or done a palpably awful thing and faced no approbation?

The blinkers are strong in this thread. The British press is famously challenging and ‘disrespectful’ to politicians of all colours, and indeed to anyone in a position of power. And that’s right. I’d much rather than that go back to a time where those in charge controlled what we knew.

To those complaining that politics is now all about personality, I think that Bliar /Mandleson are the architects of that. And now the genie is out of the bottle it’s not going back.

The tories are a busted flush, but starmer needs to come up with some firm policies soon or he will, rightly, be torn apart by the press for running on a ‘we won’t be as bad as them’ card. None of us individually can challenge him, or whoever's leading the Lib Dem’s or SNP, so we need the press to be able to do this.

@Tryingtokeepgoing

Margaret Thatcher was about personality. She removed up the cautious housewife living within her means. We still refer to Thatcherism and Thatcher policies. We also cannot escape that we now have a beauty competition, in effect. Sound bites, no detail on policies, attacking the record of the party in power and then blaming them for a financial mess.

Labour need to explain how they will effect change. Saying they want change is stating the obvious. Already on Thursday's Question Time, the Labour Shadow Education Secretary would not address the "how?" They will be asked this time and time again and so they really should answer. Hiding behind the "change" mantra will not do.

I keep reading that a Labour government will cut nhs waiting times, increase GP numbers, get more teachers, increase benefits etc etc. We need to know how and crucially who is paying. Where's the money coming from? Amazon - I heard this week! Really? We have too few in good jobs, or working at all, and productivity needs to ramp up or we can afford nothing.

Margaret Thatcher electioneered as a cautious housewife etc

So who can solve it ? You’ve cited problems not addressed by the Tories in 14 years or actually made worse by them. If you are northern as per user name you’d see that Thatcher and the current lot absolutely trashed parts of the north. And yet you’re almost defending them. It’s well known that some Tory MPs have tried to ride out scandals more so than was done years ago. They are brazen in the disrespect for us.

@TizerorFizz how will the Tories address the problems they’ve caused. Like
Brexit ? Like the woeful non starter levelling up ? They say and promise much but most never gets done. HS2 anyone ? So also we want ideas off the Tories right ? Where are their plans ? There are plenty changes expected down the line with regards to checks done at the border. The government has managed to postpone them until now. How will the tories tackle this ?
And Thatcher the housewife. Who started the ridiculous idea that the economy was like a household budget.

@Lottelenya

Stupid voters caused Brexit! People believed the idiot Farage and shot themselves in the foot. To make it worse, the red wall voted for Johnson to "get Brexit done". If we had to leave the EU, May's deal was better for the uk. Without Farage shouting the odds, we had been sleepy over the EU.

We have a massive issue that vast numbers of voters don't understand basic economics and are easily led. A few three word slogans and they vote for Johnson. Unfortunately Corbyn was never going to win. Starmer isn't making much noise about how we can improve the self harm that was Brexit. I'd like to hear what they are going to do. However the idea that we are awash with money and can spend our way out if this is total rubbish. We need some radical thinking!

HS2 was flawed. Always was a white elephant. Never going to be worth it as people are drawn to London. Those of us near what is being built are the short changed ones. Labour's Lord Adonis dreamed it up. He had the idea of free schools too. Those MATs that give £200,000 plus to their CEos whilst starving the schools of cash. What a rubbish idea that was.

Labour let 13 years of power slip by without a word of "levelling up". Again, who is paying?

I've never voted Con. This time I'm not voting unless I get clear costed policies. My Con MP supported Truss so he's economically illiterate too.

It has always been so. The press are complicit in the chaos and corruption of this government . The Express and Mail headlines are laughable but people buy into it.

Labour will have a hard job in power but I can only hope the grown ups see past the headlines and sound bites.

Yesterday Saville was trending on Twitter after Boris wrote his column about Starmer. Politics is a dirty business.

The public 'caused' Brexit, and voted for it. The Tories gave them the opportunity. Are you saying regardless of the outcome of the vote, that we should have just ignored the result? There are so many people on this thread who are arrogant enough to think the only opinions that matter, and are right, are their own, and that everyone who disagrees is as thick as pig shit.

And the labour party have the Beeb in their corner, so it kind of all levels out in the end.....

My DPs refused to tell us who they voted for. We were brought up to be critical thinkers and as a result the three of us vote for three different parties. If I tell you that one lives in the south west, one lives in the Republic of South Yorkshire ( ex mining and steel industry) and one lives in rural middle England you can guess who votes for who.
We are the product of our environment. And my DPs would be proud that they have had no influence over our political leanings.
We do have the occasional political discussion but my middle DSis, like many left of centre voters has a tendency to try and convert us.
We do have to remind her that politics is a personal choice and as we are all possessed of equal intelligence and intellect, one sister has two degrees and a phd, we are unlikely to succumb to indoctrination.
Her daughter was one of the generation that was convinced that men really could become biological women despite having an A level in biology. So she has become a little more tolerant over the years. She has experienced just how difficult it is to debate with someone who is evangelical about their beliefs.
I have never come across an evangelical Tory or SDP, but I do struggle having a reasonable conversation with a passionate Labour supporter.

You lost all credibility there when you said 'unfortunately Corbyn didn't win'. The man was a complete idiot, and you actually think he would have been a good leader, and in the same breath accuse everyone of being stupid voters? The irony....

@Livelovebehappy

??? I said "Corbyn was NEVER going to win". Do you understand the difference between what you wrote and what I actually wrote? I've never voted Labour either.

Yes it is appalling. Such condescension and lack of ability to see things from any viewpoint but their own.

You actually said 'Unfortunately Corbyn was never going to win....' Not much unfortunate about it imo.

@Lottelenya yes atm I'm northern lived all my life in the South apart from past 2 years, including in the 80s. I was raised on a rough council estate, dad was constantly on strike in late 70s (worked at Ford). Thatcher made our lives incomparably better, bought our council house, put an end to strikes, she was highly competent unlike the current shower, they bear no relation to the tories then. Labour will be terrible and won't solve any of our problems but will make worse. Brext was a symptom not a cause of the current awful state of things.

@Northernnature says it all. All the problems you’ve cited happened under the Tories ? I lived under New Labour and it was infinitely better than this crowd. And yes Brexit was the the consequence of Tory austerity. Oh and if you haven’t lived here for donkeys years you’re not northern. Obviously haven’t a clue.

Labour under Corbyn was a disaster so "unfortunately" wasn't in a position to get elected!!!! So the choice for many was narrow.

Also Johnson and Sunak have had a terrible press. Sunak in particular. His wife's wealth for starters. Like Johnson's unelected politician wife. Like Cherie Blair. It doesn't matter who you are, the press will have a go,

By the way, young people don't read newspapers. They use unreliable social media!

What’s funny is how the Brexit narrative is changing. Before the shit hit the fan it was Tory sunlit uplands. Now it’s just ‘the public got what the public wanted’. Despite being facilitated and encouraged by a majority of Tory MPs and supporters.
Despite a vocal section of the Tory party constantly harassing their leader for a referendum.

I think that we also have the opposite problem these days. There are people who assume that mainstream media never tell the truth and their chosen guru on social media is telling the truth.

You missed a key word out of your quote there - unfortunalely.

It’s the old Donald Trump cry of “Fake News!” when they read a story that doesn’t fit their opinion.

I totally agree @Lottelenya . The media is run by super rich types who don't actually reflect that most people these days are quite progressive, because they'd rather distract us by scapegoating refugees, poor people etc for all our problems as it draws attention away from how little they are contributing (that they could easily afford to) to help society at all.

Labour absolutely should be held to account, but they shouldn't be blamed for legacy problems from the Tory. They will be though.

I think in the background the Tories, especially if decimated, will become increasingly loopy and extreme but will still be backed by the media. My fear is that constant media diet of headlines insisting that Labour are a disaster, that crime is rampant (note, crime doesn't have to be rampant, but everyone will believe it is if you say it enough), that totally normal measures to support vulnerable people are 'crazed, extremist wokeness' and so on, will lead to an adangerously ultra-nationalist Tory party getting voted in again at the next election after this.