The Vegetable Patch

[MereDintofPandiculation]

Now bookbook has sadly left us, and stirred into action by @DobbleDobble, I think it’s time to start a general thread for those of us who try to grow edible produce, fruit, veg, herbs, to share successes, failures, questions and answers

Can I join in? I am quite new to gardening as we only bought our house 18mths ago after renting, I have three veg beds and am considering whether to plant a low espalier of apple trees along the west edge of the veg beds but I’m worried it might block out too much light? Would it be better to put them up the fence at the back instead? Tia

DCs have loved the garden. Sand pit, play frame, trampoline, short tennis, cricket, rounders, croquet. But much better trees to climb, sheds to hide behind, garages to hide on top of. Plus growing stuff I which they have invested time and love

@StyleDesperation Get the tress. It makes adventurous play much more fun and you like them. The garden is for everyone.

*trees

@FauxFox

Can I join in? I am quite new to gardening as we only bought our house 18mths ago after renting, I have three veg beds and am considering whether to plant a low espalier of apple trees along the west edge of the veg beds but I’m worried it might block out too much light? Would it be better to put them up the fence at the back instead? Tia

How low?

If at the west, i,d have thought the shade will only be a problem from 3pm or so. Id have said “why not mock up with a sheet of cardboard and see what happens” but you’d want to do that in summer, and you’ll want to get your apples in now.

Did you know about apples needing to pollinate each other? You need your apples to be in the same flowering group, or at the least adjacent, a 4 and a 3 for example. Flowering group is listed on the website/in the catalogue. In urban areas, there’s a good chance someone else will have a suitable pollinator, but if you’re growing more than one, you have security in knowing your pollination doesn’t depend on someone else deciding not to chop down their tree.

Peas, beans, things with flowers generally need sun, but leafy stuff can cope with shade.

Thanks @MereDintofPandiculation that’s really helpful, I am thinking about 1m high with two layers of branches. I am going to look at the nursery at the weekend and hopefully get an Egremont russet and s pippin in the same category- exciting!

Please can I ask about roots. I read and follow spacing for plants, but that is above ground, what spacing do roots need? I assume different per plant, but this has a serious impact on where in a raised bed they can be planted.
I've pulled up munched PSB today and the roots were 4" square max. I've also pulled up nettles, which had serious roots of a greater size than the above ground leafage

@FauxFox I'm not an expert but the recommended height for espaliers is 6-8 feet so more like 2-3 m. I think you'd struggle to achieve any kind of crop/risk the health of the tree with 1 m trained as an espalier and keep it at this size in the longer term. have you considered stepovers if you're mainly looking to create a boundary for the raised beds?

@indignatio

Please can I ask about roots. I read and follow spacing for plants, but that is above ground, what spacing do roots need? I assume different per plant, but this has a serious impact on where in a raised bed they can be planted. I've pulled up munched PSB today and the roots were 4" square max. I've also pulled up nettles, which had serious roots of a greater size than the above ground leafage

The spacing given for plants is supposed to take account of root spacing needed. Consider, for example, asparagus, where the spacing is larger than needed for the top growth.

Nettles use their roots to spread. It’s very satisfying to tug hard on a nettle root and see, about a metre away, another nettle reduce in height and disappear into the ground.

[quote StyleDesperation]@FauxFox I'm not an expert but the recommended height for espaliers is 6-8 feet so more like 2-3 m. I think you'd struggle to achieve any kind of crop/risk the health of the tree with 1 m trained as an espalier and keep it at this size in the longer term. have you considered stepovers if you're mainly looking to create a boundary for the raised beds?[/quote]
A friend has a good crop on 1.5m espaliers. So I don’t see why 1m shouldn’t work, provided the rootstock isn’t too vigorous

According to this, stepovers are simply single tiered espaliers. What the OP is planning is a two tier espalier.

Fair enough. 1 m didn't seem enough to have any kind of trunk below and between the two sets of branches but always worth a go.

Thanks Mere. Do roots have to be circular around the stem or can you have the area offset? Again thinking about planting closer to an edge of a raised bed, but with room for roots to go into the bed. Not sure I am explaining my query properly

I'm sure I've seen on GW etc that it's fine to plant up against the edge of a raised bed. Spacing guidelines are mostly about how close a plant can be to another of the same species. They will have roots at the same level and be going for the exact same nutrients. I am quite lax on spacing distance and it doesn't make as much difference as you might think. I'm sure you will get more knowledgeable advice than mine though.

Aubergine news! I sowed the rest of last year's seeds of aubergine "Snowy" which just would NOT germinate last year. I have four seedlings so far and more look to be coming through behind them! Also some very old tomato "Marmande" are up in crazy abundance. I will be sowing the new seeds probably this weekend. Then wondering where the hell I'm going to put everything...

Roots will go wherever they can. The only problem with offset roots is they’re not giving equal support all the way round, but that’s only a problem with trees which are liable to be blown over.

Spacing does affect growth, but if you have not much ground and lots of seeds, you might as well put them a bit closer. If you put them too close, you’ll get much the same crop but by having fewer pods on more plants. It is worth giving more space to beetroot - if they don’t have enough space they’ll bolt.

Thank you. I am planning on using the same bed for rhubarb, horseradish and artichokes. All are new , so I figure that the artichoke will have had its 3 year life cycle whilst the rhubarb is bedding in.
Please let me know if I am delusional

Hello everyone, I'd like to join in please! I'm an EXTREME beginner so here to get tips, not give advice I'm afraid

I have a waist high small raised bed that I popped strawberries in a few years ago, and they come back every year with no effort from me! The other half of it I planted 3 different types of tomatoes (from mini plants I bought in Homebase) and they were doing soooo well, then blight hit and they were all dead within a week. I need to pull them all up actually and dig up the soil a bit ready for spring. I'll leave the strawberries well alone though!

I need to plant in pots and grow bags all over our concrete patio-type bit of the garden. So all advice on easy things that can be done in them appreciated.

I also have a very shady patch of ground behind the house which I think I may stick rhubarb and broccoli in, and hope for the best.

@indignatio are you leaving enough space for the rhubarb to get big? Both artichokes and rhubarb are large plants and even though you need to let the rhubarb grow the first year without harvesting, it will still get pretty large I think. As will the artichokes, so do you have enough space for both plants to spread their leaves?

I have never grown horse radish but people say it's quite invasive. You can probably control it in a raised bed but you might need to be vigilant.

@pupcakes I love to grow broad beans so would definitely recommend them. They will probably cope with your more shady area but would prefer some sun.

You can get blight resistant tomatoes for this year in your raised bed. Or how about courgettes? They are so rewarding. Just so long as they are consistently watered and get some sun. Too early to start those yet though.

@styledesperation I know it was ages ago you asked but I definitely had to get a vote in for quince. Such beautiful trees and you can't but quince in the shops (or at least not round here). I have lescowacz on dwarf rooting stock, and although it's a martyr to mildew (not enough sun, and competition from next doors tree) I love it and get a small crop every year. The blossom is so pretty.

[quote deplorabelle]@styledesperation I know it was ages ago you asked but I definitely had to get a vote in for quince. Such beautiful trees and you can't but quince in the shops (or at least not round here). I have lescowacz on dwarf rooting stock, and although it's a martyr to mildew (not enough sun, and competition from next doors tree) I love it and get a small crop every year. The blossom is so pretty. [/quote]
Yes, quince are lovely trees. I think I got about 20 - 30 fruits this year - this is-in Yorkshire. I make them into marmelada (membrillo) to eat with cheese, and boil up the skin and cores to make jelly.

our word marmelade comes from marmelo, the Portuguese for quince, and marmelada, quince paste.

@pupcakes - new potatoes can be grown well in grow sacks, very little effort required.

Re courgettes. How many seeds do you grow if you don’t have space for several courgette plants? I’d like to grow a couple in a raised bed but have read how much space they need so thinking I’ll just go with 1 which is a bit of a gamble. Do they really need so much?

I sow 2 seeds for each plant I want to end up with (or 3 if there are only 3 seeds left in the pack). In theory what I should then do is give away/discard the spare if both germinate. In reality I end up planting the spares in flower borders, top of the compost bin or any spare bit of soil I can find :-)

😂Do you grow any in containers?