The Vegetable Patch

[MereDintofPandiculation]

Now bookbook has sadly left us, and stirred into action by @DobbleDobble, I think it’s time to start a general thread for those of us who try to grow edible produce, fruit, veg, herbs, to share successes, failures, questions and answers

Posey - I would be more careful where i planted raspberries as mine are in bed next to asparagus which makes it difficult to weed them out (they grow like triffids at our site). I'm guessing that you know not to put summer and autumn raspberries anywhere near each other due to different pruning needs

I sowed a raised planter twice this year with salad leaves and each time they bolted before I'd made any inroads. Same thing with coriander - just as I'm admiring my healthy crop it bolts Coriander always bolts, you need to make repeated sowings. Salad crops bolting usually means that they’re not getting enough water. They get nervous and think they’d better make seeds before they get killed by the drought which is obviously on its way. Some leafy plants, some of the Japanese veg for example, need to be sown after midsummer as they will bolt if sown earlier.

I find beetroot need a surprisingly large amount of space.

@MereDintofPandiculation - that's all really helpful thank you!

I'll try again with the salad leaves and make sure they get more water.

I am now succession planting coriander. Not so worried about it bolting now it's dawned on me to collect the seed. But is there anything I can do to stop it bolting quite so quickly?

I think space may have been an issue when I've tried beetroot before so may give that another go.

I hedged my bets this year and my spinach went in two different locations, one of which has a reasonable amount of shade and where the soil tends to stay fairly moist and the other in a drier more sunny area - plants in both areas bolted at exactly the same time. I did manage to eat some spinach first at least this year.

@MereDintofPandiculation interesting. The more I look at pictures of different types, the more I have no idea what we have! It's certainly more blackberry-ish than raspberry. Possibly a boysenberry then? But we definitely bought a tayberry & loganberry, but this was from a local village plant sale, where the plants were all donations from other villagers/gardeners.

@dreamingofsun I know some raspberries grow on this years growth and some last years (can't remember which, presumably summer for last?) so I'll definitely keep those apart.

I'd like to try blueberries, can they be grown alongside raspberries and gooseberry? I'm probably going to build my own fruit cage, just trying to decide on materials.

@PoseyFlump blueberries need ericascious (sp?) soil so might be better in tubs? We have several in tubs on the patio & they do well, some better than others. It depends on what sort of soil you have & its ph level.

posey- summer raspberries you remove all the fruiting canes after they have fruited, autumn ones you cut all the canes down to the ground in the winter. i've never grown blueberries but i believe they need acidic soil and some people grow them in pots because of this

We have blueberries in pots. They produced lots of berries last year but the birds took them. We'll be netting this year.

Thanks all! I've got a fair bit of room to play with so I might be able to do raised beds with paths in the fruit cage and give the blueberries a separate bed with special soil. I bought compost yesterday and saw some saying ericaceous (?) but I'd also be willing to test the ph (I love blueberries a lot!)

@PoseyFlump I got blueberries in pots last autumn. It's definitely worth checking the pH if you've bought ericaceous soil. I didn't check until 6 months later when it was clear the plants were struggling, and my soil (from a very large national chain) turned out to be neutral not acidic. I checked reviews, ordered some online and swapped the soil out. They now have fresh growth again and are currently looking happy.

@APurpleSquirrel I'd have put them thr other way round too, my tayberry the berries get plumper and they are fatter and when I've looked online that seems to be the general conclusion (e.g www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=apps.rhs.org.uk/planttrials/TrialReports/Blackberry%2520and%2520Hybrid%2520Berry%25202013-2015.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiIqO6VhNL4AhXZEcAKHQDIDoMQFnoECAwQAQ&usg=AOvVaw3jCbM4rYzdcKaM4-AyTgcg). They go dark purple when ripe, the loganberry ones don't go as dark.

@MereDintofPandiculation the different varieties must be even more different than I'd realised (I have a thornless loganberry but a tayberry with thorns). I did do a quick Google before posting and there are lots of people posting about very long loganberry canes so I'd assumed it was universal, shorter canes would certainly be more practical so I can see why more recent varieties might tend that way!

@CrabbyCat I'll definitely do that then. I want to figure it all out before buying plants (I guess the best time is in the spring?) so I can prep the plot over the autumn and winter and maybe build the cage. When you've got a blank canvas, plans keep changing!

@PoseyFlump We have a big fruit cage, and love it. We got a good size and I grow most of my stuff in it - 5m x 5m I think - I got butterfly netting, so my brassicas are safer. The birds don’t attack the flowers in the runner beans (had no beans the year I put them outside the netting, flippin sparrows), and as it’s tall enough to walk about in, weeding, planting out etc is all easy. I can rotate veg within the space too. I have fruit (currants, gooseberries, strawberries, raspberries) which are of course all easy to pick and maintain too.

Do plan for taking the roof off over winter, and keeping the net clear of things so that it is not destroyed. We keep it well maintained, and the net is taught. Had it for several years, and no animals/birds have been caught up in it.

@CrabbyCat @APurpleSquirrel Looks like the RHS is having the same problem as us - from cat’s quoted article, “4. Loganberry ‘Ly 654’ retains its AGM, but this trial cannot be used to re-confirm this, as
there is some difficulty in correctly identifying the cultivar sent by the supplier.”

@MereDintofPandiculation glad it's not just us then! Trouble is, these sorts of crosses are cross pollinated, incorrectly labelled & carry on evolving I suppose. Unless you're taking direct from a known cultivar, as time moves on new variants will emerge & stronger genes will prevail.
As I said mine is much more blackberry-ish in every way - looks, thorns, the way it grows etc, but the berries don't go completely black until over-ripe so not an actual true-bred blackberry or bramble. But they're shiny & glossy & very big & look like slightly unripe blackberries.
I've given away lots of runners in the past few years as it's a bigger for touching the ground & sending off new shoots, so there's a whole enclave of this variant in Somerset now.

First harvest of berries and potatoes this week. Cucumbers are coming on well, lots of fruit but a bit mildewy. Loads of planting out and sowing Monday and yesterday. Late with lots of things as usual but we're in for so much warm weather if I can keep up with watering I hope things will catch up. And it's raining right now, hallelujah!

Oohh @FranticHare you've given me much more to think about now with brassicas! I'm already fed up of stooping under netting to weed my new brassica raised beds.

Now I'm just wondering how big a cage I can away with on the allotment

I was looking at those aviary wire panels you can get but they would let butterflies in I think.

@PoseyFlump You do need the special butterfly netting if you want to protect the brassicas. The holes are really quite small. I think the aviary panels would be too big. Great for fruit though! We bought the metal framed fruit cages you can buy - not sure how they compare on price - and then added the net.

Good luck on your decision making - planning is half the fun!

That's true @FranticHare about the fun planning! I did see a free walk in metal chicken run on the internet that would have been ideal but it was too far away and would have cost a ridiculous amount in fuel. I need to find one for sale near the coast so I can double up with a day trip

@APurpleSquirrel Mine isn’t blackberry-ish, its stems have a pale purplish bloom which makes it very attractive in the winter when it’s lost its leaves and the new shoots are neatly tied in. More spines than a blackberry, and much thinner. I have no difficulty weeding stray brambles out of it.

loganberry is similar but without the attractive colour.

I also bought a sunberry, and that really does look blackberryish, right down to having round fruit rather than long ones. But it doesn’t crop very well, so I’m easing it out.

Is it too late to buy strawberry plants? Has anyone seen them still for sale? I'd like to establish a bed for next year.

posey - i think there are two seasons to plant strawberries, spring and autumn. The autumn ones can fruit the following year as they have had a chance to settle in. I've not seen any yet as I was hoping to pick up some reduced ones (I dont really need any so can justify those)

Reduced bargain ones sound great @dreamingofsun 👍 please let me know if you see any around! I've been reading about June bearing, perpetuals and even something called day neutral. Maybe I need 3 strawberry beds 😊

Hello, can I ask a question re tomatoes- do you trim the non fruit bearing stalks and leaves as I used to , to improve air circulation and reduce risk of blight ? Or do you leave well alone? I heard James Wong on Gardeners Question Time saying not to do it as it can be an entry point for blight. Thanks for any advice.