Allotment/Veg Patch Thread 6 - Weed 'em and Reap!

[bookbook]

Thanks WhoKnowsWhereThe Time GOes for the title of the new thread.
So, we head into summer, praying for sun, gentle rain and no slugs
Everyone welcome to join in and share joys and woes and advice, given freely!
Previous thread here
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/gardening/2582241-Allotment-Veg-Patch-Thread-5-The-Diggers-Rest?pg=1

Morning!
its raining I was supposed to be down at the plot...
welcome Sunshine - that sounds wonderful- a ready made harvest already! I am at fig tree - I am trying really hard to see if there is anywhere I could put one where it would survive without massive TLC every winter. Ill blueberry- is it in a pot? They really like quite acidic conditions, so check your soil type.
WhoKnows - I sympathise entirely re gooseberries, but I and DH do love them, but its a labour of love against the thorns, so I quite see why you would ditch it.
shove - obvious first contender - amelanchier on a dwarf rootstock, ( I am presuming they are possible to buy, maybe not...) trained into a nice shape ? And if you can get to the berries before the birds too :) Sounds weird but would an olive survive? I am now the foster parent to one in a pot ( a gift to my DD1 who really didn't want it) I have googled, and if its in the ground , with some protection it has a chance - well I am giving it a go, so will let you know...) Definitely bay tree as Bella suggested , but again, will need a fleece blanket in winter like mine I suspect , so maybe not so nice a view out of the window Off the wall - physalis? I suspect it would need to be in a pot , as I see its a bit invasive, but a near plot holder has one thats looking rather nice at the moment, maybe a bit too small for height impact possibly. Will have a think...

Is it a blueberry? It's in a pot. What do I do to help it?

erm - it might be- that does look sad. I would weed the pot. Put it somewhere sunny and sheltered Make up a plant feed Sequestrene or any sequestered iron tonic in rainwater . ( not tap water , just in case you are in a hard water area) Stand it on bricks or gravel to let it drain. And then hope for the best. It's a bit late in the season too - are you North or South?
shove - had another thought - Globe artichokes?

I'm in York in a sheltered, sunny place. Thanks for the advice. I have more questions! I don't know what this is? It's obviously been deliberately planted in it's own bed. Is it a type of soft fruit?

My fig tree now I've unravelled the bindweed. I've no illusions that the fruit will ever ripen but I'm happy with it anyway. Do I need to protect it and the olive tree over winter? My last questions (for now!)

Forgot the pic!

book - I might go with an amelanchier, that's a great idea! (The only reason bay is out, bella, is that I already have three standards!! I don't bother protecting them in winter - they are in pots in the front garden, which is south-facing, and they just have to rough it!)

book - I reckon you might get figs, you know. It's actually a fig tree I'm looking to replace in that herb bed - it's done OK through some harsh winters without any protection, though the fruit rotted this year. I think with the lower rainfall further east, you might get it to ripen in a sunny spot. Worth looking at varieties, though, as mine is 'Brown turkey' and apparently they are not worth eating even if you do get them to ripen! (So says Mr James Wong, and so also says my Dad who does get fruit in East Anglia, ). I shall grow it for leaves in future. You might be lucky too, sunshine. BTW, I think the picture before the fig one might be a gooseberry?

Thank you shove. No sign of any fruit but I'll look for gooseberries next year. What do you do with them? Jam?

I do have a west facing wall, but I have jut planted a hydrangea petiolaris on it last year . mmmmm.....
Sunshine - agree that looks like a gooseberry. And yayyyyyy! I have someone near me - only about 15 miles away . I suspect you are on clay , as my DD's garden in Clifton is clay... You may be okay with that fig. Maybe just be on the look out for a nasty frost, but if its in a sunny position , I think you may get away with it.

Thanks bookbook. Going to read the whole of the thread now and get to know everyone and see if I can pick up some more tips

sunshine - you really don't have to read the whole thing! There is no 'RTFT' thing here as there is elsewhere on Mumsnet. It's mostly seasonal anyway, so stuff that we said in spring is probably not that useful in September . Also, I regularly forget bits of great advice I have been given and have to come back to get people to repeat them. Like, book told me which broad beans and peas she grows about a million times and I even wrote it down, but I can't find the bit of paper. (Am reading my Kings Seeds catalogue going over and over the names wondering which one it was).

right - am off to the plot, its brightened a bit - also taking my seed order completed - well, it was raining this morning!
shove -
broad beans 'The Sutton' - they overwinter as well, so I already have mine.
peas - Hurst Green Shaft
peas maincrop - Ambassador.

Oooh, I wonder if I can put my fig outside too. I'm in a warmish part of Scotland (you know, warm for Scotland) and we get plenty of sun all year round, but we're quite exposed so also get a lot of wind. Could I put it in a more sheltered part of my garden? It's currently living inside by the patio door so it gets enough sun but I don't think it's particularly happy.

Back - got a bit done, but nothing now until Wednesday as away at DD's tonight and all tomorrow.
But I have an exciting news flash I have 2 aubergines set! I have absolutely no idea if they will get big enough, or ripe enough, but they have flowered their hearts out for the last 2 weeks. I have just been in to the greenhouse to water tomatoes. cucumbers and peppers, along with said aubergines, as I will not be back until late tomorrow. And there they were hiding in amongst the leaves . I wonder if the mini heatwave was the reason?
Grouchy - it seems they do best in a container outside against a sunny south/south west facing wall, then take them inside to a cold greenhouse/conservatory/porch for winter. May have to look into varieties ( though sorry - me and James Wong seem to disagree on what is tasty or not - cucumelons spring to mind...)
Oh , and a small joy at the plot - most of flowers are looking really straggly but this one is looking lovely - its actually the palest lemon rather than white. so pretty, glowing on a bit of a dismal day

Evening everyone.
Hello sunshine and welcome! Also if the blueberry is looking poorly you could try mulching with pine needles and/or repotting & putting some rusty nails/screws into the bottom of the pot?
Whoknows - thornless gooseberries may be an option?
Bella hats off to you for doing any gardening at all with a newborn in tow!
Shove I love the sound of your herb bed.
Book wow aubergines! Very envious!

Well...I ventured up to the allotment today. First visit since the flood. DH had popped up last week and reported that things didn't look too bad. So I suppose I had expected it to all be fine but it was disappointing to see the plot in quite a state. Nothing major but I think about a foot of floodwater went through the plot and also the quarter plots' communal tool shed. So all of my tools are rusty, everything covered in a thick layer of stinky silt including my kneeling pad and little stool, about 6 inches of soil in my little raised bed has been washed away. Masses of conifer chippings (which we use for making paths) strewn all over the plot and all of the paths between plots are now bare mud! My tarp storage bin filled with floodwater so all the tarps/black plastic/weed membrane is soaked and stinky.
I spent an hour or so cleaning up, brought all the tools home to dry out & clean the rust off, picked up random bits of rubbish that had ended up on the plot (along with about 4 stray watering cans!) and moved some of the conifer chippings back onto the path. Fortunately all the plants that were on the plot seem to have survived although they're very dirty!
On the bright side I rescued a massive compost bin yesterday which was being thrown out, it had never been used & was immaculate so it now has a good home on my plot. Also I've chipped in for a share of a massive manure delivery next month (180 barrows worth...) no idea how many barrowloads I should aim for for a quarter plot, any tips?

Also, I know that freshly-manured ground isn't great for root veg but if I manure all the beds in October will it be OK to grow root veg in them come the spring? Or should I leave one bed unmanured?

I'm back after some name changes.
am the crazy one with comfrey juice :o

pumpkin question - when to harvest?
the foliage is getting a bit dry and mildewy now. but the fruit is big (size of a basketball) and looks great. would it keep 'till halloween?
no idea of the variety, was from a seedling swap. but it's more yellow than orange.

Thanks book!

timtam - Gosh, that does sound like you have your work cut out. On the upside, the soil will come back, and digging in the chippings won't do any harm either. I think there might be some nutritious stuff in some silts also?? (Not sure if I am talking out of my hat here). I suppose my main question in your shoes would be: is this just going to happen again and again and how sustainable is it if it does occur every few years?

pinkswimgoggles - Is the surface of the fruit and the stem getting really hard? If so, it's ready! Also, I remember as a tot going round the garden with my Dad knocking on them - if they ring slightly hollow, they are ripe.

Has anyone managed to get their allotment to go organic?

my garden is organic (bar slug pellets to start seedlings off)

I get the sense most of us on this thread are organic. I don't think we've really talked about it, though?

The real challenge isn't going organic, to be honest, which is pretty easy, but going entirely chemical control-free (there are loads of sprays and potions that are organic). I am getting there, but I still use organic slug pellets at the allotment sometimes because the slimy gits will eat everything in spring or autumn. This summer I've also had to use neem oil and pyrethrum at home (where my garden is entirely ornamental) because I've had a severe woolly aphid infestation on an old apple tree, and viburnum beetle. Both are organic, but I'd rather not use either really.

I think I need to try a bit harder to find alternatives, though - I know others here do manage without.

Incidentally, if anyone has advice on woolly aphids, I'd be grateful. I am most definitely losing my fight against them, despite having spent hours and hours climbing the tree and sitting in the branches scrubbing it with a mixture of washing up liquid and neem oil. All it has done is to make my gardening clothes smell horrible and require a very hot wash, and to plant doubts about my sanity in the minds of puzzled neighbours. Am not sure whether I should give the tree its annual prune this winter either?

I think the only time we've really discussed organic was a few months ago about the use of glyphosate for a one-off clearance of newly acquirec long neglected plots. Which is what seems to be expected at my allotment site for fast results. The plot just by our entrance gate at mine did this earlier in the year and went from jungle to fully planted in weeks, it looked amazing. Two months later and it was knee high in weeds again. They did clear them somehow, between the plants but it is back to ankle high in weeds everywhere again and their actual veg don't look terribly healthy. I think it's better to dig them out, add compost etc as you go and accept slower results to be honest. I might use a dab of glyphosate for a real bugger of a weed (haven't for a couple of years) other than that just slug pellets.

Evening!
timtam- well, manure and wheelbarrows - how long is a piece of string springs to mind :) I reckon approximately 1 barrowload ( pushable at that!) per approx square metre. That will give you about 3" as a mulch/top dressing over winter. Hopefully it is just silt that is on your plot, from a clean stream. If so, I think you may be okay , just an extra layer of soil in the end.
Just as an aside - if the site is big enough to afford it, would it be worth asking the committee to maybe consider sand bags along the vulnerable bank?
No, we haven't really talked/discussed much about organic gardening.But I have always assumed that this is one of the drivers to grow your own food,.:)
I'm afraid the organic slug pellets did get used for the first time this year. Luckily , just one application around some new planted squashes.
But other than that , its all been digging and manuring.I use cow manure - but also remember mentioning this on the first thread, and was warned/cautioned about knowing where it has come from. I'm sure it was Doreen who said that some chemical weed killers are used even now on crops/fields grown for fodder. I use a certain amount of chicken manure pellets to boost feed on things like potatoes.
I do have one chemical though -I have bought a weed killer , for emergencies. I am battling a new area which has ground elder, and am managing so far by sheer digging, but I am having problems with a neighbouring plot, which butts up to mine , who are not quite so diligent, so its hard not to feel its an uphill struggle. But I really don't want to have to resort to it. I actually find digging and weeding very therapeutic, even if I don't have a particularly tidy plot!

Evening everyone.

Shove I talked to someone on the committee about the frequency of flooding. They had 30 years with no floods at all, then last year in very heavy rain the lower area of quarter plots flooded (immediately adjacent to the brook - my plot wasn't one of them) then this year's much worse flooding which affected many more plots.They've contacted the council for suggestions but I'm not hopeful of any input. I guess the quarter-plotters will be keener than usual to move on to a half plot (these are mostly well away from the brook!). But it's a shame that people's first experience of starting out on a plot is of floods, debris, mess and crops being destroyed. The rain last week was unbelievably heavy so hopefully it won't be a regular occurrence.

Book thank you for the manure advice, I think I will suggest taking between 6 & 10 barrowloads and see how it goes. I'll need to cover and store some of it (maybe for squash next year) and I also need to finish the cleanup before I can get to the beds to spread the manure...!
Any advice on whether a bed manured in October would be OK for growing root veg next spring please?

They've contacted

timtam - it is so disheartening. You wonder how many people will be put off for good. Gardening can be very disheartening at times. It's wonderful when things go well, but it's just rotten when they fail or die. Part of it is the work you've put in, but there's a lot of emotional investment too. I think book's suggestion of demanding some defences, even in the shape of simple sandbags, is a good one.

I have some scepticism now about the way we talk about flood risk. So many 1 in 100 year events are now happening every 1 in 10 years with climate change. Those warmer, wetter winters....

The only thing I have to add to book's advice on manure is not to put much on any bed you're planning to grow roots in. On beds for heavy feeders like courgettes, you can scarcely have too much!