Advice on A level choices. How are children supposed to know at 15 what career?

[Spamfrit]

I know this is nothing new, and like most people are worried (probably unnecessarily) of DS making a mistake in his A level choices and cutting off options.
I think he’s a 7/8 GCSE level kid in most subjects bar Spanish. Has taken history/art/DT options too.
He did work experience with a big global food brand and quite fancies marketing/advertising/branding etc.
He is naturally creative and arty. His first thoughts for A level were DT product design, Art and Maths.
His school advised him to maybe consider business. His strongest subject is probably English.
Any thoughts to those in the business. Does a marketing degree lead onto good things? Are there opportunities? What A levels would anyone advise? Thanks

They mainly request a portfolio so art A level (or product design, 3d design etc.) seems likely helpful.

Agree with @Owlbookend re architecture @user1460471313 – I just researched a few unis (Newcastle, York, Oxford Brookes) for architecture and while some requested a portfolio, none of those I looked at required any specific A level subjects. (also not my area of expertise so I too may be missing something).

The Leeds course also is a BEng/MEng hence maths. All the ones I looked at were BA.

To be fair, Sheffield mentions technology and science. It’s much better to apply with maths or technology if you can. It’s not a humanities subject. Bath says it’s science, art and technology, so they give a very clear steer on subjects. At Bath (very competitive to get in) they want maths or physics and strongly prefer an art or design subject. They say the strongest applicants have maths and physics. So I would expect Sheffield to be similar in what they expect from the strongest candidates because they are probably also competitive. @clary
There is a big difference between architecture schools!

Bath also look at GCSEs and the PS. They are clearly interested in subjects studied and say so. If dc take maths and physics, Engimeering is possible too.

Definitely do not do two 2 subjects with portfolios as they are a lot of course work so art or product design not both and I’d consider economics or English as the third based on your post

I am sure there is a difference between schools, tho York and Newcastle both tick the RG box :D. Tbf the Bath course (not surprisingly, given it’s Bath) is a BSc not a BA. All the courses I looked at were BA. I have no knowledge as to whether one or the other is better in the jobs market but I guess a BA leans less towards the science aspect. I can’t see where Sheffield mentions technology and science in its BA course details, certainly not in the entry requirements.

@clary Bath and BSc ones are superior. We know loads of architects and one or two eminent ones! BA is more conceptual. Lots of architects don’t get work and it’s a job very dependent on the economy. The BSc tends to be what practicing architects like but of course I cannot speak for everyone. When you think about it, architecture really is art, science and technology as Bath says. It’s impossible to design anything successfully without these three. There’s a reason why Bath is sought after!

BA/BSc and BEng architecture courses are likely to have slightly different focuses and different entry requirements. However, if accredited they all offer the possibility of progression to being fully qualified. I wouldn't dismiss BA courses like Sheffield. It is a highly rated course & department (if you look at the league tables - I know they arent everything). The course is accredited. It is also a strong university overall. Although I am sure it is welcomed, you dont need maths a level to be offered a place. I am sure many students have it, but others wont. Bath is a great course as well, but it isnt the only good option. Progression in architecture requires work experience and additional study. Lots wont make it to be fully qualified, but some will. Students need to think about their aptitudes and interests and choose what is right for them.
Nobody on this thread is suggesting that maths isnt a great option at a level if you have an aptitude and interest. However, it is important to recognise that there are courses in many areas without it. It is best to research the courses (including specific entry criteria and graduate progression) directly.

Many architects do have a maths aptitude though. Certainly Sheffield is excellent and a BEng is obviously going to have more maths in it.

I would always try to look at employment rates and, after the first degree, this is difficult to know because of the further study and work that’s needed. Students can change university for further study too making employability difficult to ascertain. The main goal is to be employable. It’s certainly interesting to see the various requirements of courses and it wasn’t that long ago that Bath required A level art.

With most degrees, I think it’s best to look at the higher ranking courses to gauge requirements and what subjects put dc in the best position to engage with the course. Sheffield includes technology and design and certainly wants evidence of artistic ability and a portfolio. So I would always read the entry requirements and decide what subjects dc will do well in and then what courses meet that. However if they say nothing about A levels, I’d try and get info from them about succesful % with maths, art, technology etc. What is the profile of dc on the course? Do they, in effect, filter out applicants without, say, maths or technology? From what I can see, if dc is not loving art, Sheffield might not be the course that suits. If they don’t love maths, then swerve Bath.

Architects rarely do complex structural design. They have the ideas and trivial engineers make it work but architects must have some idea about structures and that’s maths. Or it’s a concept that cannot be built. Of course most architects don’t work on anything very exciting!

If he is struggling with maths, that would not be a good choice. He will need A,A,B for a Russell Gp uni (or higher), so go for his strengths with a range of skills, ie one arty subject, one essay based subject, one analytical/statistical subject.

Thankyou, that is interesting. I presumed all would want a maths or a physics

Haven't RTFT so apologies if this has been raised and addressed, but even this early on I would steer my DC away from any profession that's likely to be cannibalised by AI. We're already experiencing a white collar employment downturn in London and it's likely to get worse in the coming years. So architecture would be off the list.

He could always be a builder and build the rubbish produced by AI. I guess AI won’t be doing the concrete pouring?

Can't tell if you're being sarky or not, but there's truth in what you're saying. Hands-on skilled workers are likely to have a far more secure future than white collar professionals.

@Passingthrough123 I will leave it to you to guess. What I will say though, is that if we deskill ourselves we will have no idea if the concrete pouring is accurate! Give up with skills needed for design, and it’s chaos. It’s already causing issues on big projects. Computer spews out rubbish as rubbish entered! Expensive redesigns. The way forward is not losing skills human beings have. AI might be available but it doesn’t make it the best option. But yes, trades will be required.

I agree it's not the best option, but the more firms rely on AI, the more data it will scrape and the better it's going to get.

@Passingthrough123 Do you think buildings are designed on data? What about structural engineering? Or refurbishing buildings into alternative uses? All data?

He wouldn’t. Only one uni ask for maths for architecture, think it was Bath.

Dd did biology, product design and geography A levels and is studying architecture at one of the top rated courses. She even had an interview for Cambridge.

However the job market in architecture is horrendous. Out of her cohort when she finished her undergraduate degree she was the only one out of 80 to get a job. She started looking for work in May and from May to Oct there were less than 10 jobs advertised nationwide. Maybe less than 5 actually. And yes she did also send her portfolio to random companies. Most of her ex cohort are working in warehouses.

also keep in mind it’s 7 years of training, 5 years of university fees. Expect 60 hour weeks in uni. At DD’s uni they have 24 hr access to studios and will be there working till 4am, pull out their sleeping bags get a few hours sleep ready for presenting at 9am. It’s not for the faint hearted and the drop out rate is high.