Urgent advice needed. Meeting tomorrow.

[Devsmum13]

Hello,

My son is not enjoying T Levels. Not enough people signed up for his original IT course, so sixth form put on a coding course in September. (He should have been told on results day but they forgot). He has moaned non stop to his sixth form tutor and at home. Sixth form have asked me to go in for a meeting with the council tomorrow afternoon. I know they will ask for him to leave immediately.

It is a specialist Technical Sixth form.
The council suggested it because it is small and has the academic.

He would have loved the original course. No where else can meet need, and he hasn't got the grades for a school sixth form. He will be placed at a college for autistic students that requires improvement possibly without the IT element.

Things would have been different if his original course has run.

I understand why we need to have this meeting. My son is very bright. He will not learn if he doesn't buckle down and work but If he doesn't like the course and it isn't something he wants to do, he isn't going to try.

He passed all his GCSEs but with much lower grades due to the crappy Senco not understanding the EHCP at his secondary school. He only got in to sixth form because of his EHCP. He won't be able to cope with a school sixth form, and hasn't got the grades anyway..

Any advice would be appreciated. I feel like a failure.

Many thanks.

You can’t go to university based on 1 A level though? You need enough UCAS points. Plus certain GCSE’s (not just the subject you’re good at)

What do you actually expect the LA to do? He’s not at a high enough standard for 6th Form. The Tech college aren’t running the one course he wants as they can’t run a course just for one student.

You and your son are going to have to figure out a new plan. It’s not necessarily due to his autism, it’s many other factors and many other students will have similar issues when courses they want to do either aren’t running or they’re to of a higher enough academic standard

Did you/DS think the other settings could meet his needs? Just because a setting objects when consulted doesn’t always mean the setting can’t actually meet needs or that the legal threshold is met.

Were the placements wholly independent? Unless the placement is wholly independent, the LA must name your/DS’s preference unless the LA can prove:
-The setting is unsuitable for the age, ability, aptitude or special educational needs of the child or young person; or
-The attendance of the child or young person would be incompatible with the provision of efficient education for others; or
-The attendance of the child or young person would be incompatible with the efficient use of resources.

The bar to prove one of the above is high. Far higher than LAs and many settings admit. It has to be something tangible and specific and is more than an “adverse effect”, “impact on” or “prejudicial to”. On its own, lack of staffing/resources isn’t a lawful reason. Unless a placement is wholly independent, they don’t need to agree to being named in I. They can, and must unless the LA can prove one of the above, be named against their will.

Although naming a setting in I doesn’t guarantee a place on a specific course. However, sometimes the wording in F means a certain course can only meet F.

If you/DS want to look at specialist, have you looked at Breckenbrough?

If it is inappropriate for provision to be made in a school or college, there is also EOTAS/EOTIS/EOTISC.

EHCPs can continue until 25, or 26 in some cases. I would be careful to move DS on to employment too soon. The reason EHCPs can continue until 25/26 is because it is recognised education can take longer for some disabled young people. Have you looked at benefits? Has DS, or you as appointee, already made a credits only New Style ESA claim?

To some extent, yes. My DS is also Autistic and got grade 5/6s in his GCSEs in stead of the 7-9s he was predicted. Also lost his 6th form place as a result and no other 6th form would take him. Fortunately his sister was at the local tech for an access course (also Autistic/ADHD) so we spoke to them. They accepted him onto an A Level course that only had one of the A Level subjects he’d originally expected to study, but he swallowed his disappointment and buckled down because they required students to do AS levels at the end of year 1 and if they failed, no yr2/Alevels. When he returned this year, having got amazing grades, he was reminded that he still needed to pass probation again this year - so attendance, attitude, participation, completion of work in and out of classroom etc all assessed in order to remain.

In fact it’s been the making of him. He was embarrassed by his GCSEs, devastated to be going to the collective with the ‘rejects’ and not with his friends, and scared that uni was not going to be an option for him. Now he has met people with worse background stories than him and appreciates the gift that a place at this college was, he actually really enjoys the 2 A level subjects he’d originally been dismissive about and is planning to study one further at university.

If your DS gets the qualification for the course he is on, he can STILL study CS at uni. They don’t require you to have CS at A Level (in fact it’s a waste of time if they do as the unis can’t assume all the students have learned the same coding systems so y1 is a ‘back to basics’ year at most unis. I’d have a serious talk to him about what his desired outcome is - if it is to get to uni and study CS, then the course he is on can still get him there. If he can take that on board, I’d go back to the college and grovel in the hope that they might keep him on after all.

It's very strange that a professional SENCO wouldn't "understand" an EHCP

It really isn’t.

Well we haven't got any information to go on ie what didn't they understand/was it that they didn't understand or was it they couldn't meet it? OP doesn't answer most Qs and gives very scarce details.
It's impossible to give decent advice.

your young person wont be forced to work at 18 if he chooses a slower route - you can get child benefit and any additional benefits (so if he gets PIP, the uplifts to UC) up to age 20, so long as he stays in education and then starts his final course under age 19.

my daughter got PIP, she was very unwell during ages 16/17 but was on roll at a local HE college, she then started a level 3+ art foundation at 19 and her child benefit didnt stop until her 20th birthday.

My son did A levels and then also did an art foundation, and I received child benefit for him until the end August after he finished the course, and UC until the course end day in July

so there is time for him to take a slow year, so long as he stays in some sort of education, and then possibly transfer to somewhere else next year

You don’t need specific information about one case to know it isn’t “very strange that a professional SENCO wouldn't "understand" an EHCP”. It actually isn’t uncommon. I was commenting on your generalisation rather than OP’s case specifically.

Most LAs can’t meet need. Because there are a HUGE amount of children with a huge amount of needs, and the funding just doesn’t match.
Its unfortunate for your son, but he’s not on his own with this and it doesn’t make it right, but there are plenty of students who have left school with an idea and grades for what they want to do, but there just aren’t the places available. Your son will need to look at other routes, and may have to accept that the specific course just can’t be offered?
There are crappy SENCOs out there, but there are often SENCOs who are doing the absolute best they can with the extremely limited resources they are given…
This is where, sometimes, getting a place automatically just because of an EHCP isn’t in the child’s best interests ultimately. The whole system is very broken!

We fundamentally disagree then because I maintain many times it's lack of being able to meet the EHCP due to lack of funding and resource rather than a lack of understanding. I'm not saying there aren't cases where SENCO don't understand but imo most SENCO try their utmost to meet EHCPs but are severely hampered by a broken system

your young person wont be forced to work at 18 if he chooses a slower route - you can get child benefit and any additional benefits (so if he gets PIP, the uplifts to UC) up to age 20, so long as he stays in education and then starts his final course under age 19.

Not quite. CB can be paid until 20. The child element of UC can only be paid up to the 1st September following the young person’s 19th birthday.

Although OP’s DS, or his appointee, can apply for UC in his own right. A credits only New Style ESA claim can be made in preparation.

When I had the 16+ meeting with the council in January, they said that they didn't think that a school/college setting would be appropriate due to the free periods and the size of the schools in our area (the majority are huge). Then the majority of them do not have the academic. This is the problem. Not his grades. He couldn't get a SEN school place because our city only has one suitable specialist school available and it's for the whole of Yorkshire. The council did an excellent job finding this small specialist STEM sixth form. When I went to the meeting yesterday, they said that he had settled in really well, but wasn't making progress due to not liking the course. The council are calling me today so hopefully they will find something. I don't want you think that I am being snobby or uncooperative because I am not.

Isn't there anywhere that offers computing btec?
If the ehcp is the barrier, can you adjust whatever it says in there, that could have been written years ago, to stop it preventing centres from thinking they can meet need ( unless you agree that they wouldn't).

Incidentally this is the one downside of a highly specific quantified ehcp...

Some of the incorrect things people I have recently supported have been told by different SENCOs:
-To get an EHCP we need to have spent £6k.
-You can’t get an EHCP for children who aren’t 2+ years behind ARE.
-Academically able DC can’t get EHCPs.
-We can’t request an EHCNA without 2+ APDR cycles.
-You can’t get an EHCP for a child who isn’t attending school. Or conversely has 100% attendance.
-You need a diagnosis to get an EHCP.
-You need an EP assessment before requesting an EHCNA.
-You can’t get EHCPs for just dyslexia.
-This LA doesn’t include 1:1 any more.
-Sharing 1:1s (when it is detailed, specified and quantified in F) is fine.
-SALT/OT (insert other therapies) don’t go in F. They should be in G.
-Mentoring doesn’t go in EHCPs.
-Study skills support doesn’t go in EHCPs.
-The EHCP contains suggestions. We decide what to provide.
-That wording is fine (in response to vague and woolly wording that is unenforceable).
-We can’t be named unless we agree.
-We can show incompatibility (when they actually can’t).

If all SENCOs understood EHCPs and the law surrounding them, none of these would have been said. These are just examples, it really isn’t ‘very strange’ for SENCOs not to understand EHCPs and SEN law.

You only have to look at how many parents are incorrectly told their DC doesn’t need or won’t get an EHCP but the parents go on to successfully make the request themselves.

But you are.

You are expecting the LA to come up with a magic solution but aren't prepared to say what outcomes you want.

All you are giving is reasons why places can't take him so what do you expect LA to magic up?

"You need an EP assessment before requesting an EHCNA."

It's true that you don't, but it's a great deal better for everyone if you can.

also worth noting that many university courses offer 4 year courses now, which include a foundation year that brings them up to speed if they dont have the grades/background needed for usual entry.

Both my kids took longer to get to the uni stage because they both have autism, and one has additional issues as well.

I knew that at 18 my son was not in the place to go and study independantly as he lacked the life skills, so his extra year in education at home was more about helping him develop those skills rather than the course he was doing (which he actually excelled at) whereas my daughter didnt go to uni until later and is studying locally.

what are his plans when you say university? what are the struggles that the other schools are not able to meet? you refer to him having been in mainstream school, so what is it that makes you say that he wont cope in a school environment - are there things that he could be learning skills/ adjustments/ coping skills to allow him to develop strategies? These are really important going forwards, and stuff that my kids (and my daughter has an EHCP and had to be withdrawn from mainstream) needed to do in order to progress. Some comes with maturity, and obviously autism never goes away (I have it too) but we need to survive and adapt in the world - be that education or workplace - to enable us to live

they said that they didn't think that a school/college setting would be appropriate due to the free periods

Support can be put in place for free periods. If it is inappropriate (in a legal sense) for provision to be made in school/college, did you consider EOTAS/EOTIS/C?

He couldn't get a SEN school place because our city only has one suitable specialist school available and it's for the whole of Yorkshire.

You aren’t limited to placements only your city. Have you looked at out of area placements? There only being one suitable SS, doesn’t mean DS couldn’t go to it. If that was your/DS’s preference and the LA refused to name it, did you appeal?

But it isn’t part of the legal test, which is how it was portrayed, and no parent should avoid requesting an EHCNA because they haven’t got one.

Perhaps an apprenticeship would be a better route for him to take.
https://www.findapprenticeship.service.gov.uk/

when my daughter transferred from home ed to each of her different provisions (and she went to 4 different colleges - two BIG FE colleges, 1 sixth form attached to a smaller school, one tiny specialist SEN alternative provision) we had meetings with each one where we sat down with their SENCO, the LA rep and us, to see how the EHCP needed to be adapted to their particular placement.
You have seemed to have taken the LAs word for it that he shouldnt go to certain places, but have you actually been to visit and spoken to them. My son's friend has ASD which severely impacted him, and grades which didnt come up to scratch in some areas, and he was able to attend the local FE college with support, and complete his A levels. Another friends child had fairly extreme end of PDA, but is now at uni but it took a bit longer to get there.

I dont understand what you mean by 'the academics' are you referring to subjects?

Assuming they have spoken to school who has confirmed they aren't able/prepared to prioritize for their EP (if they have one).

One off EP visits from highly stressed EPs stuck in a cycle of only doing one off statutory assessment visits because everyone is requesting EHCPs doesn't lead to best outcomes.

I understand the issue; if universal and targeted support aren't effective (is there aren't enough EPs and other services) then everyone ends up swirling through to the specialist vortex and EPs get stuck working in that zone, but we really are more effective working at targeted level and observing response over time working with a child and family, and then supporting the move into the 'specialist' zone (EHCPs, not literal specialist schools, being the specialist zone).

In an ideal world, yes. Sadly, in the current climate, most parents can’t access EP input outwith the EHCP process (or going down the independent assessment route).

In the example I posted, it was a school who wasn’t offering EP input, wouldn’t request an EHCNA, told the mother she couldn’t make the request herself without already having had an EP assessment, and was offering very limited support.

How about an IT support apprenticeship?

https://uk.indeed.com/m/viewjob?jk=2517d2413f3c9a4d&from=serp&mclk=default&xpse=SoAE67I3smng1V2OFZ0LbzkdCdPP&xfps=26313b1d-585b-4121-94a0-c00a9e196a78&xkcb=SoCT67M3smnmW0RugZ0AbzkdCdPP

Or if he doesn't feel ready for an apprenticeship, a Supported Internship?

https://www.northyorks.gov.uk/children-and-families/send-local-offer/send-information-young-people/flying-high-your-future-what-about-after-secondary/flying-high-your-future-supported-internship

How about an IT support apprenticeship?

https://uk.indeed.com/m/viewjob?jk=2517d2413f3c9a4d&from=serp&mclk=default&xpse=SoAE67I3smng1V2OFZ0LbzkdCdPP&xfps=26313b1d-585b-4121-94a0-c00a9e196a78&xkcb=SoCT67M3smnmW0RugZ0AbzkdCdPP

Or if he doesn't feel ready for an apprenticeship, a Supported Internship?

https://www.northyorks.gov.uk/children-and-families/send-local-offer/send-information-young-people/flying-high-your-future-what-about-after-secondary/flying-high-your-future-supported-internship

OP there are a number of issues here.
Like others, I am surprised that the SENCO did not understand the EHCP. What did they not understand? What was the outcome of this? Is it better explained now?

You repeatedly say that various settings could not offer or cope with “the academic” – what do you mean by that? In your last post you say: “The majority of them [post-6 settings] do not have the academic.” Academic is an adjective not a noun – do you mean they could not offer the academic content your DS could access?

If your DS got an 8 in CS GCSE, how did he do in the other subjects? He was planning to take A levels – what subjects? What grades did he get? Is there any way he could maybe use this year to retake one or two GCSEs and start A levels inc CS next September?

I think as others say that you need a clear idea of what will be a good answer going forward. If he would be better taking a T level or single-subject Btec, what subject? Where is it offered locally to you? Can the setting that offers it (if there is one) look at how he would need to be supported? I agree with a PP - have you actually looked in detail at what other settings can offfer?

It’s not reasonable to say he is excluded bc of being ND; schools and colleges need to set levels of attainment to access A levels, like 6 or even 7 in the A level subject and 4 or 5 in maths and English; and lots of DC will not achieve these grades, for all kinds of reasons, and will have to look at different routes.