A level choices

[Freedom2025]

Hoping someone will help with this. My daughter wanted to do maths, physics & psychology for her A levels. She didn’t get the 8 she needed for maths to stay at her current grammar school. She got a 7 but needed an 8 because she didn’t do well at pre GCSE maths assessment test. She got a 7 in maths and 8s in physics and biology. She really wants to stay at her current school because she is worried about change and she really loves her school. She has now put down physics, biology and psychology at her current school (all girls grammar with mixed 6th form) and has been accepted.

She has an option of attending a nearby grammar with her original subject choices. This is a boys grammar school with mixed 6th form. She liked it when she visited but not as much as her current school. Now the dilemma is whether it’s worth sacrificing the maths in order to stay at current school or just start afresh elsewhere. If anyone has any wise words please share!

I am feeling a little overwhelmed to respond to all the responses but appreciate them all very much. Thank you.

For those that asked, yes, her current school has confirmed she can do physics without the maths. I think she would regret it if she doesn’t at least give herself a chance to have a go at maths and physics. She has enjoyed both subjects (maths more than the physics I think) throughout her GCSEs.

She will be using this weekend to think it through and re looking at possible university courses with for both options. Have told her we’ll support whatever decision she makes because ultimately, she is the one that has to live through the decision.

Unfortunately if she wants to do engineering she really needs to move school and take maths. If she worked hard at GSCE then she is probably going to need tutoring for A level - can you afford that? Could you get hold of the appropriate book for her to look at, these are helpful guides. https://www.cgpbooks.co.uk/secondary-books/as-and-a-level/maths/a-level-maths-textbooks?gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=21550970592&gbraid=0AAAAADuMZW1lIoRvprf05bop_tJBUBlQo&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIhbmJ2YShjwMVNZFQBh3HuAC_EAAYAiAAEgKayvD_BwE

Generally girls do better in all girls schools but have you looked at what A level results the two schools are getting? The teaching may be better at one school than the other.

If you need to get her a tutor she might do better with a young person tutoring her. The boys school may encourage brighter students to help those who are struggling or if you have a university nearby you might find a student who could tutor her.

Or you could talk through alternative careers with her - what appeals about engineering?

Thanks. Yes, we can afford tutoring. She is not entirely set on engineering or any other career path really at this point. Engineering is something she thought she can do since she enjoys physics. Current school gets slightly better A level results.

My son had consistently been getting 8s and 9s for mock maths exams.
He got a 7, 2 marks off an 8 on Thursday and was very disappointed. He is still going ahead with A level maths though.
Having looked at the grade boundaries for the previous 3 years, he would easily have got an 8 had he sat his exams in those years (admittedly Covid played a part those years).
It's a tricky thing really, his maths teacher also left a term.before GCSEs (!) and he says they were still covering new content right up to study leave.
I am hoping he will cope with A level, but we are prepared to get him extra tuition if necessary.
Hope your DD can make a plan which will suit her.

One of my daughters achieved an 8 in GCSE maths ( with a lot of tuition ) but wouldn’t be able to cope with Maths A level
My other daughter achieved a 9 at GCSE ( without any tuition) and got an A star at A level
Maths A level is difficult . Even students who get an 8 or 9 at GCSE find the A level difficult
If your dd really wants to do A level maths she should go to the other school . However , I am of the belief ( unless there are extenuating circumstances ) that only those who achieve an 8 or 9 should do the A level
Of course there are always going to be exceptions , but generally those who achieve less than 7 struggle with A level maths

@Freedom2025 You do need to think about courses which might take a C in maths A level though. Lots of engineering courses will be in clearing but I posted some careers earlier that are less maths dependent.

Maths isn’t difficult for people who “get” maths as evidenced by the high % of top grades. More than any other subject. Dc who need loads of tuition and don’t have a maths brain will find it a challenge.

The 7 although is technically an A, the boundaries are much lower to attain a 7 than it was to attain an A.

My DS attempted Maths with a 7 and struggled all the way through. She should do subjects that she would enjoy and excels in.

That is only so they have room for grade 8 and 9 questions too.

It’s probably got the most A/A grades because people are being told they can’t do it with less than a 7 at GCSE and even then being actively put off unless they got an 8 or 9. I’m not denying A levels maths is probably hard, but if all other A level subjects did the same they’d get more A/A grades.

I hope your dd manages to come to some sort of resolution, such a difficult decision for her to make.

I agree that A level maths gets high grades because it is popular but many schools demand high grades to do it. Son just got A at A level, previously 8 at gcse and he worked v hard and got a tutor.
Personally I wouldn't move school to do a subject that might be a struggle.

I think it has the largest number taking it and largest number with high grades. Selection cuts down numbers taking a subject normally but this is not the case with maths. It’s simply if you can do it, you will do well in it. The best don’t need tutors.

I would say that with eg History, you can always find something to say if you know the topic.
Whereas with maths it is possible to look at a question and not have a clue. So the chance of completely bombing out is higher.

Unfortunately she'd also struggle to find a physics degree that doesnt require A level maths. She could look at something like Environmental Science.

These are the results issued for maths A level and 41.3% were at A or A star grade. So vast numbers taking it. History is just below 25% A and A star. No evidence of a huge gap in maths between A and E. Popular subjects don’t always get high % with top grades though. Sociology and Pschology under 20%. These grades are more a reflection on which dc take these subjects not difficulty of syllabus.

The other school may get slightly worse results precisely because it allows students with lower grade GSCEs to do A levels. So if it's a small difference they are effectively equal for teaching.

If she decides on the other school then some free maths websites that might help https://www.mathsgenie.co.uk/ and https://nrich.maths.org/post-16-curriculum

A young relative really struggled with Maths and had to give up. However I also know a rather lazy student who took Maths despite the maths teacher discouraging it. With a bit of help from another student but no other tutoring she got a B grade and was very pleased with that. I'd say more students struggle with mechanics than the other parts of maths but if she likes physics maybe she would like that part.

She could find e.g. quantity surveying courses that only need GCSE maths https://www.lsbu.ac.uk/study/course-finder/bsc-hons-quantity-surveying#entry-requirements

I do think you are right in your perspective- 8/9’ really need for A level maths as it so difficult. You need to love it at an early age. That said a few more years of brain development in some kids does make the difference especially neurodivergent children who may well take longer to develop focus

Some students love mechanics - maybe it’s ones with an ‘engineering brain’? (DD always wanted to do engineering, did maths and fm and taught herself an extra fm mechanics module which she did very well in).

104,630 pupils don’t think it’s that difficult! Many think MFLs are difficult!

At my son's pretty ordinary state school it's a minimum of a 7 for A level maths.

Despite that a third of his class got a U in their year 12 mocks.

He knows a few kids who have just finished A level maths with a 6 at GCSE and the grades were D-U.

I get the impression that some children can get a 7/8 at GCSE for Maths without much effort but that won't work at A level. my son luckily realised around February of year 12 that putting in the same out of effort he did at GCSE was only going to get him an E at best.

For the kids who put loads of effort in to get a 6/7 a good grade at A level is probably unlikely.

It seems a child really needs to like and enjoy maths and find it not too difficult to do well at A level.

Then she needs maths. Also physics without maths will be much harder.

She needs to move schools.

8 is a high requirement for maths, 7 more normal.

But they are more selective, so that means nothing.

This is a tough one.

My DD had 9 at maths and further maths GCSE - these were CAGs in the 2nd year of COVID so perhaps her grades would have been lower if she’d sat actual GCSE exams. She struggled a lot with A level maths. In the end she got an A but it was really gruelling and, if she’d been at one of those schools that start students off on 4 A levels and allow them to drop one, I suspect maths would have been dropped. But she was only doing 3 so couldn’t drop it. She was at a private school and we still got tutoring for her.

The leap in A level maths is significant and the trouble with maths is that there are students to whom it comes very naturally and easily. I think this affects maths in a way that doesn’t affect other subjects.

Your daughter may be fine but my DD had always got on well with maths and her GCSE maths teacher encouraged her to do it for A level and she still really struggled.

If a minimum of 7 or 8 is required to do A level Maths i think the gcse is not fit for purpose. There has always been a big jump between O levels/gcses and A levels but if people getting a top grade (7) are struggling then something isn't right. My 4dc all took FMSQ in year 11 as their schools thought this had more in common with the A level.

I think the other issue with maths is it can be very easy ... until it isn't. So you can dance along happily with maths, but not learn how to learn maths. And then part way through A levels, or degree, you realise you are lost but haven't built the skills on how to recover.

That's what happened to me anyway.

I think a grade 7 is needed for a number of other subjects too. Mine for example (MFL). It doesn’t mean the GCSE is not fit for purpose. If you can achieve a L2 pass (4/5) at GCSE that’s great, but it doesn’t mean that A level study is the right path for you. In fact it indicates that other paths will suit you, your abilities and your way of working better. That’s fine. We do our YP no favours if we pretend that everyone can do any A level (not that you are saying that, I know). I have seen what happens when a YP starts A level MFL or maths with a lower grade (old B/new 6) and it doesn’t usually end well.