A level choices - too weak?

[dinomirror]

Dd has chosen History, Politics and Economics. She is predicted mainly 8s (school doesn't predict 9s). Lots of people have been a tiny bit shocked when told choices and there seems to be an underlying feeling that they aren't 'hard' enough for her(especially politics) although i know history is a content filled subject . Should she change?

For goodness sake don’t misinterpret. I in no way inferred what you say here.

@CherryBlossomFestival Not having Maths A-level closes a lot of doors. Many humanities degrees like Sociology have quantitative elements, data analysis can be very important in research.

It's a shame to waste the opportunity unless they absolutely hate Maths.

OP those a levels are fine
https://www.lse.ac.uk/study-at-lse/Undergraduate/Prospective-Students/How-to-Apply/Admissions-Information

But I would suggest she does maths.

I was the same top STEM GCSE results but didn't want to do a stem degree. I took all humanities + maths and it certainly gave me a broader range of options.

Maths A level will only truly keep doors open if the grade achieved is an A or possibly a B. OP says her DD is predicted a 7 at Maths GCSE. Previous analysis has shown 75% of students with a 7 in Maths at GCSE, and go on to take A level Maths, achieved a C or lower in Maths A level; only 10% achieved an A. So, in reality, an A in Politics may well keep more doors open than a C in Maths, particularly if looking at competitive entry universities.

@Opposum That’s very much the attitude that I’ve observed in some other parents. A lot of DD’s friends are doing Maths A level on that basis, despite disliking it, to keep career options open.

We’ve decided to let DD make her own choices, based on advice from her school which is to do what you love. She has no interest in any careers which require Maths, and doesn’t enjoy it.

She understands that this could limit her future earning potential, but equally she sees people around her who have careers that they enjoy, who did not study Maths post 16. We may not pay teachers, civil servants, musicians, charity sector workers etc as much as we pay investment bankers, but that doesn’t mean no-one should consider those type of things as a career.

Exactly right @CherryBlossomFestival I hear about a lot of parents pushing their dc towards particular jobs, usually finance. They may earn decent money but it doesn’t always make them happy. I hate how the arts are devalued on this board and any conversation like this is always dominated by a few very pushy and outspoken posters who are obsessed with how much money and prestige their dc will have. In contrast the thread for parents whose dc want to pursue a degree in the arts is a breath of fresh air. I know a lot of young people who want to work in the creative arts through my own work and they are wonderful. They know they may not earn huge amounts of money but they value other things. Remember when you go to the theatre or switch on the TV or buy a dress that behind that was a young person who probably doesn’t have a bloody maths A level but who is valuable nonetheless. Farage now says he wants to scrap degrees for non STEM subjects and this conversation feeds into that discourse. Be careful what you wish for as the UK has always dominated the world, culturally, but you people don’t seem to understand the importance of that. Enjoy spending your £££ but remember to keep your soul nourished with the things which really matter in the meantime.

Doing two subjects that are new to her seems a bit risky? Does she have a really good understanding of the content, has seen exam papers and sample answers?

Those a levels would be absolutely fine for law. God don’t do maths if you’re not strong at it that’s crazy.

Farage now says he wants to scrap degrees for non STEM subjects and this conversation feeds into that discourse. Be careful what you wish for as the UK has always dominated the world, culturally, but you people don’t seem to understand the importance of that. Enjoy spending your £££ but remember to keep your soul nourished with the things which really matter in the meantime.

Hell yes. Perhaps our world would be different if Farage had gone to uni rather than straight into City trading.... And apart from 'soul nourishment', our creative industries are an important part of our economy!

Psychology? Always good as a subject that is vote scientific and encourages critical thinking.

May have changed but the City law firms used to only want “traditional” subjects. Not sure how they would view psychology- it’s very popular at the moment though every other girl seems to be taking it.

I'm not sure I agree with the critical thinking bit. My students always tell me there is very little opinion, debate or evaluative analysis in psychology, politics or law compared to history or sociology, for example. However, some of this is down to teaching, I guess. My DS got loads of debate and discussion in Economics A level but in the school I teach at is is just spoon fed facts.

Not so long ago parents also forced their children to do English A Level because it was 'important'. How sad it is that we no longer see the value in writing.

@Summertimer Cambridge don’t think Politics is soft(ish). It’s all about combinations of subjects for the degree a young person might want. They list the subjects that give the best prep for academic courses there but the choice is widened by complementary subjects, so they list more specialised that are also helpful to have. So this group includes economics, politics, etc. It’s not making any comment on what’s “easier” it’s about balance and suitability of subjects for degree applied for.

We do have huge numbers of young people doing creative degrees! However getting work and decent pay afterwards sucks! My DD was forced to change career and start again. Although she barely had a first career - just a string of unpaid internships. Many people who are creative are the least well off after their degrees. If anything, we need fewer of them! Living on thin air isn’t appealing but at least they don’t pay for their degrees. They don’t earn enough.

I was referring to Philosophy A level.

I disagree with this and think you are looking at things from the wrong angle. We need to value the arts and pay people properly for their work and expertise. That’s the problem, not the number of people achieving certain types of degrees. We are at risk of losing a lot with the attitudes I see on these types of threads and I despair.

@Piggywaspushed English is usually literature at A level. No creative writing there. It’s the reading and evaluation of texts that’s seen as desirable. The problem with lots of A levels is that the answers are formulaic. There is not much space for any original thought. There’s a mark scheme. That’s why high grades don’t always reflect calibre of dc overall. The ones who think for themselves, might lose marks! That appears to be a family trait in our house.

@Lassi Why do you think people should exist in poverty to supply you with the cultural fix you want? That’s really not fair. Unfortunately there isn’t money for every person who wants to work in these industries. A few do incredibly well. Vast numbers don’t. Did you get no work after your creative degree? Or do you just expect others to put up with it? There is not enough decently paid work. People have to live. Nurses are well paid when compared against many creative people!

Also, who is we? We should pay? Who?

Nowhere have I said people should live in poverty to provide me with my creative fix. Nowhere. What I said was we should value the work people within these industries provide us with and we should pay them properly. If we started to do the former, the latter will follow.

Oh and the who and we are all those people who benefit from the expertise and enjoyment creative people provide. Whether that’s paying a fair price for a theatre ticket or a pair of shoes. I can’t even begin to tell you how often I see huge companies expecting artists to work for peanuts or for free. They’ll happily pay their own staff or shareholders huge amounts of money but have a weird attitude about how art should be remunerated. This is a massive issue and obviously Farage has picked up on popular attitudes in the UK ie maths=good/valuable art=bad/not valuable and is running with it. I think he is pushing on an open door if some of you are anything to go by. It’s crazy because we are world leaders on culture and we are going to lose that by trying to force all young people into becoming financiers and engineers whether that suits them or not.

I pay over £100 for theatre tickets. Lots more for ROH. Who has all this spare money to pay more?

Companies don’t have to commidsion art at all! Often artists like such commissions to get noticed. Shareholders are pension funds quite often too. What do they care about art? Does your pension fund invest in art? Perhaps you should. What’s your spend on art and culture every year? I support theatres a lot but that doesn’t stop over production of art/theatre grads who get no work. It’s easy to point the finger at others, but spend your money first. If you want to spend it on art, great. Others spend it on food and rent. Their taxes go to fund Finance England with £250 billion in unpaid student loans. Guess what many of them studied! It’s always got to be a balance!

”Often artists like such commissions to get noticed.”
This is not true at all. Artists hate this. There are social media accounts dedicated to discussing the exploitative attitude of working ‘for exposure.’
As for why should companies pay for art, if they are wanting to benefit in any way from the creative industries, so for example their logo, the art on their walls, the staff uniform and so on, pay the artist fairly. They certainly should not suggest the work should be free ‘for exposure’ as if often the case.
Theatre tickets is an interesting point. I know that there are people paying £300 to watch a film star play Romeo in the West End. That in itself is hugely damaging. Some people are profiting handsomely while everyone else is struggling to pay their rent. The current state of film, TV and theatre is that it’s become a playground for the rich because working-class kids can’t afford to work in such conditions. Which brings me back to my main point. Value the creative industries!

I meant writing essays.

There needs to be markschemes. They are notoriously difficult to apply, their is no formula - and at the top end creative, imaginative and evaluative approaches are preferred- not writing to ordered frames.

Most probably! I was replying to a different poster!

Very much agree with @Lassi that there is no way it is OK to suggest an artist work for free "for exposure". Why should they?

I offer my skills for free to friends and family if I wish to support them; but if a commercial organisation wants to use my talents (broadly creative I guess, tho not actually art) then they need to pay.

And yes @Piggywaspushed I also agree - mark schemes are vital but IME original thought is very much encouraged, especially if we are talking about a very able candidate. It's great if they can move away from a formulaic answer while answering the question well.

Aside from the fact these are hard A-levels (are people expecting her to be doing physics, chemistry, and maths as suitably hard options?!) I would say the following:

1. It’s no one else’s bloody business what she does.
2. I hope these are the subjects that give her joy and pique her interest - that’s what really matters
3. Maybe they are entirely relevant to what she may want to do in the future?
4. there are a million and one respectable careers, and very high-paying ones, that can fall out of these choices.