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Further education

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Original poster

Computer Science degree versus a degree apprenticeship

78 replies

S1ng1ngSpr1ng · 10/02/2023 12:34

My son wants to be a software developer and loves coding. The expectation seems to be a Computer Science degree and I’m not seeing why. He hates the theory in Computer Science and I’m not sure what use there would be for it in a developing job. He has seen degree apprenticeships with a different degree you do whilst doing a coding job. Surely that is better. His dad is a software developer and says nobody has ever asked about his degrees just his coding experience. So why the funnelling into a computer science degree? Wondering if I’m missing something but don’t want him to make a horrible mistake. Which would be better or is there not much in it?

OP posts:
WeCome1 · 10/02/2023 12:36

How much coding is there in the degree? My husband’s was about 1/3 Java, back in the day.

TeenDivided · 10/02/2023 12:37

He has seen degree apprenticeships with a different degree you do whilst doing a coding job.

What degree?

Surely the whole point of degree apprenticeships is you are doing the practical side of the degree on the job. So I'm wondering what degree other than computer science you can get whilst coding?

BestIsWest · 10/02/2023 12:39

What is different about the degree earned with the apprenticeships? I’ve worked with several developers who have come through the degree apprenticeship route and as far as I can tell the theory has been covered.

tealandteal · 10/02/2023 12:42

What is the degree apprenticeship in? My husband is a software developer with a different background and doing the degree apprenticeship in data science through work.

OntarioBagnet · 10/02/2023 12:45

My daughters boyfriend quit his CS degree in year one and got a 40k coding job. He obviously can code and had to do tests as part of the interview process. But he says nobody is bothered about degree.

Hoppinggreen · 10/02/2023 12:48

DDs BF is applying for degree apprenticeships in IT rather than a straight degree.
DH is an IT Consultant and has previously been in corporate and he’s advised him it’s a better route as he will get hands on experience as well.
I know a few DC who have taken the same route and they have enjoyed it and gone on to good careers with no student debt. It’s competitive though and needs good grades.

redskydelight · 10/02/2023 12:49

DS is doing a degree apprenticeship in Digital and Technology Solutions, working as a Software Engineer. (There are 3 other specialisms you can choose).

He doesn't enjoy learning if he can't see the point of it, so this really suits him. Plus he likes the idea that he is being paid for it, saving on tuition fees and will have 4 years of experience under his belt when he finishes.

I agree with your DH that future employers will care more about his experience than his degree.

I think more and more people are opting for degree apprenticeships these days. The idea that you must go to university is shifting.

Pinkdafodils · 10/02/2023 13:46

He has seen degree apprenticeships with a different degree you do whilst doing a coding job.

What would this 'different' degree be in?

Also, alternatives to a Computer Science degree include Information Engineering or Software Engineering.

WonkyFeelings · 10/02/2023 13:51

A computer science degree involves a lot more than coding experience: algorithms and data structures, compilers and virtual machines, artificial intelligence and machine learning, computer vision…

I was a tech manager and could always tell the difference between the CS graduates and the non graduates. Some of the latter were excellent but on average, they always lacked the academic rigor to write really good, efficient code instead of something that will just about work.

pinkyvase · 10/02/2023 14:12

DH is a high-earning developer, his degree is English Lit. Practical experience is far more valuable, I'd go for the apprenticeship

Hoppinggreen · 10/02/2023 14:47

pinkyvase · 10/02/2023 14:12

DH is a high-earning developer, his degree is English Lit. Practical experience is far more valuable, I'd go for the apprenticeship

DH is similar and has a Physics degree.
He learned on the job

Original poster
S1ng1ngSpr1ng · 10/02/2023 16:18

My husband is a high earning developer too and says he doesn’t know any coders with a Computer Science degree hence my op. 😬

OP posts:
FenghuangHoyan · 10/02/2023 16:25

I used to be a developer and have BSc with computer science units in it. No one really cared about the content of my degree, just that it was a BSc and that I had the right experience for them.

FinallyHere · 10/02/2023 20:08

could always tell the difference between the CS graduates and the non graduates.

The point about a degree apprenticeship is exactly that the candidate is in a job earning reasonable money, while studying for a degree in a related subject. In the larger corporates, they will be part of a cohort studying for the same degree. They will be moved around departments do that they get experience across a very wide range of roles.

Three or four years later, they have incurred no debts and for the registration fee, assuming they pass the assessments will also have earned a degree.

The only downside is that good places on reputable degree apprenticeship d schemes are highly sought after. I would encourage anyone who can secure a place in one to go for it.

Only exception would be anyone who expects to work in academic research. And even many of them will find better opportunities for leading edge research in larger companies who do degree apprenticeships exactly in order to attract good candidates.

Having a degree as well as experience puts these candidates ahead in their career from the start. There are many, many roles beyond coding.

fortyfifty · 18/02/2023 15:28

DS is doing a degree apprenticeship in Digital and Technology Solutions, working as a Software Engineer

DD2 is hoping to go this route when she finishes 6th form next year. She's currently doing ICT BTEC. She did CS at GCSE.

ErrolTheDragon · 18/02/2023 15:37

S1ng1ngSpr1ng · 10/02/2023 16:18

My husband is a high earning developer too and says he doesn’t know any coders with a Computer Science degree hence my op. 😬

This is probably in part a function of age though - in the past there weren't so many people with CS degrees.

In some fields such as scientific software, few developers will have CS degrees because they need degrees (often PhDs/postdocs) in the relevant science - the coding is a means to an end more than an end in itself. (This is me).

There's such a diversity of roles and skill levels for 'developers' that there isn't a one size fits all. It may be that the OPs DS will be better doing the apprenticeship (if he can get one) than a conventional CS degree.

Pythonesque · 03/03/2023 21:40

I once talked with a student on an engineering-related degree apprenticeship. It sounded like he was more academic than the course he was doing on it, wasn't having to work very hard, and there might have been some advantages for him of a different university (although all the other degree apprenticeship advantages still hold!).

But the OP's son sounds like he would be an excellent candidate for a degree apprenticeship route, knows what he wants to do and would enjoy that route more. He should research carefully what is out there and the course he would do with any given apprenticeship, as part of applying for them.

My DS is seriously considering software development as a career path, but is much more theoretical, would probably enjoy a highly theoretical computer science degree but is actually applying for maths.

CharodNeDu · 05/03/2023 22:29

This is probably in part a function of age though - in the past there weren't so many people with CS degrees

Also when Dh and I were doing degrees only 19% of people actually went to uni, how many do you think did a CS degree? There weren't very many CS degrees around and companies recruited from STEM subjects for coding. Exactly what Dh did.

It is all well and good saying you don't need a degree when you are 10 plus years into your working life and have the relevant skills to demonstrate to an employer, however, it is different when you are just starting out. A degree apprenticeship is great for any job not just CS but aren't you then tied to a company for X number of years? Can you choose where you get placed afterwards job wise, ie which city?

Nimbostratus100 · 05/03/2023 22:32

The difference is that a decent degree apprenticeship is far better, but the competition for a place is 100x higher than for a university place

Apprenticeships take the creme de la creme ( decent apprenticeships, I am talking about - check carefully)

so you are not missing anything, other than your son's chance of getting a place

Apply for both, apprenticeship as first choice, university place as back up

Dotcheck · 05/03/2023 22:39

No, you are not tied into a company with an apprenticeship

And more and more companies are offering apprenticeships- not all of them have hundreds of applications per place. It’s worth looking beyond the big name/ well known apprenticeships

Ponderingwindow · 05/03/2023 22:48

We don’t hire anyone who doesn’t have a degree. If someone has an affinity, learning to code isn’t difficult. An apprenticeship would show that certainly, but plenty of people learn to code on the job after completing a non-computer science degree. A degree shows that someone can understand the larger systems and that they can commit to a long, complicated process and complete it with minimal supervision.

there are also different types of coding jobs. Some where they feed programmers small tasks and tell them exactly what to do because the overall work is planned by someone else and others where the programmer gets to be much more creative and challenged.

mrsmacmc · 05/03/2023 23:06

I would lean towards the degree apprenticeship as your son would be applying his learning in work in real time / building his network professionally rather than spending 4 years at uni then looking to apply the knowledge he has gathered at uni.

CC4712 · 05/03/2023 23:08

DH studied computer science 20yrs ago. In my limited knowledge, he knows a vast range of computer languages, can code, but equally has a much larger scope of experience than someone than just studied 1 language, 1 course or tiny section of computing. Some colleagues did an apprentice type course and its apparently a real contrast to those with university experience.

Yes, your DH might have been lucky to find his feet and get a good job. Your son will be up against overseas graduates with a degree if not a masters or more in the field. A degree is a minimum now, unless he wants to be stuck in bit part computer role- doing JUST this or that.

Raspberrywi · 05/03/2023 23:15

Sure if he wants to be stuck in a dev role, personally I would recommend going to uni. I had a pretty decent working knowledge of a few languages but didn't know exactly what I wanted to do, so I did a comp Sci degree. Bloody loved it. Brilliant. First 2 years I'd say were pretty broad but 3rd year more of a chance to select modules (will depend on the uni). Did a year abroad (paid placement), summer internships, created a really good portfolio, built a decent network and got a lot out of it.

Just my view but knowing a bit of code isn't really going to open as many doors as it once did, more people are learning it and funded bootcamps etc are growing in popularity; the more saturated the market becomes the less chance for a decent, well paid career there'll be. If the apprentiship offers a degree what is it in? Is it a full BSc? Surely itll also cover theory? I had a masters funded by my first employer and work in a really interesting area for a very decent salary that I wouldn't be able to without a degree.

They're not the be all and end all but I'd encourage him to look into some unis, the modules on offer, the opportunities, what the companies he'd be interested in working for one day are looking for etc. The market is pretty unsettled in some areas even though demand is rising, safety net of a degree is nice tbh (plus uni was fun).

ErrolTheDragon · 05/03/2023 23:26

stuck in a dev role
Not everyone who has a long career as a developer sees it as being 'stuck'!

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