Computer Science degree versus a degree apprenticeship

[S1ng1ngSpr1ng]

My son wants to be a software developer and loves coding. The expectation seems to be a Computer Science degree and I’m not seeing why. He hates the theory in Computer Science and I’m not sure what use there would be for it in a developing job. He has seen degree apprenticeships with a different degree you do whilst doing a coding job. Surely that is better. His dad is a software developer and says nobody has ever asked about his degrees just his coding experience. So why the funnelling into a computer science degree? Wondering if I’m missing something but don’t want him to make a horrible mistake. Which would be better or is there not much in it?

Well sure, but with automation no doubt the core role of many dev jobs will evolve and many people won't be equipped. Nothing to worry about in the short term, but longer term over the course of a career having a wider breath of knowledge is certainly not going to be a negative. It also might open doors to other areas hadn't considered before, limiting yourself when there's so many opportunities is a shame.

You realise there is more to an apprenticeship than "knowing a bit of code?". In a decent job, you should get rounded experience of working in an IT department and developing a range of IT skills. Plus you also have to study a wide range of courses to develop your all round knowledge - not just that related to coding? Actually my DS (Software Developer degree apprenticeship) is not learning to code as part of the study part of his apprenticeship - he's doing that as part of his job.

I work in a different STEM field (civil engineering) and have noticed a few things -

• Amongst my older colleagues (40+) those that are hands down best at their jobs are those that learnt and qualified "on the job" - evening classes, day release, HND/sandwhich year.

• the new generation of degree apprenticeship graduate colleagues I have are so much more motivated, engaged and pragmatic that the degree graduates without practical experience. To the extent that my colleagues with school leaver age dc are all encouraging their dc down this route!

the new generation of degree apprenticeship graduate colleagues I have are so much more motivated, engaged and pragmatic that the degree graduates without practical experience.

I wonder how much of the difference you observe is due to the route vs the inherent characters of the youngsters choosing each route?

Yes I do, I have supported many apprentices in our organisation- both level 3 and level 6, and I have seen their careers following it. It's a good route and for many it's the better one, but a computer science rather than software dev degree does offer more opportunities and is arguably more future proofed- just my opinion.

the new generation of degree apprenticeship graduate colleagues I have are so much more motivated, engaged and pragmatic that the degree graduates without practical experience. To the extent that my colleagues with school leaver age dc are all encouraging their dc down this route!

if someone is graduating without practical experience that's a bit worrying. What area do you work in?

The theory is what underpins the coding.

Things like Boolean algebra can reduce a complex solution to a simple one.

It's one thing to learn to code in a given language but it is another to know what that code actually does to the binary inside the machine.

What A Levels is he taking?

the new generation of degree apprenticeship graduate colleagues I have are so much more motivated, engaged and pragmatic that the degree graduates without practical experience. To the extent that my colleagues with school leaver age dc are all encouraging their dc down this route!

So you would actually discourage a bright student from applying to a well regarded University like Imperial College??

sashh

My Dh( well paid developer who certainly doesn’t feel stuck)says that’s just not the case anymore, algorithms work all that out. He also says Bootcamps are shite. We’re going down the apprenticeship route.

Ah bless him.

One size doesn't fit all, and doesn't need to.

Agree with whoever said apprenticeships are much more competitive than Uni places. The successful candidate has to sell selves hard to get apprenticeship. A-levels/Uni was a much easier path for DS. I'm not surprised that people on the apprenticeship come across as amazing, they have to be excellent at selling selves to get on that pathway.

DS is fairly bored on his compSci Uni degree right now, still 1st year.

DNeph did computer science at a red brick and graduated a couple of years ago. He nearly quit repeatedly, as he was learning much more outside of the degree. He felt like the perfectly respectable degree was lagging behind. He also said it was stuffed with foreign students who also didn't seem to understand half the lectures, which reduced the quality further.

However he did stay because he felt the uni experience really helped him with his social and communication skills.

He's in California now doing something terrifying. I'm sure he would have done an apprenticeship if he'd realised they were a suitable option.

Yes my son is bored silly with C/S A level. He isn’t keen on passive learning and wants to be working whilst he’s learning. He has already done a summer coding internship. You don’t need to be on a C/S degree course to get one of those.

It’s always a bit worrying when parents saying ‘we’re going down the apprenticeship route’ because you’re not doing anything. Your adult child will be doing this and it should be wholly their decision. They’ll probably need to explore both routes because it’s very competitive- both computer science at top universities and good degree apprenticeships.

Don’t think you need to be worried, it’s a turn of phrase. He’s done the research, applications and gone for what is best for him.

What will be his backup options if he fails to get one of these competitive apprenticeships?

Not sure.He’s sorting it out. He’s a pretty competent coder,getting good responses and call back rates re the apprenticeships but a job maybe in the short term.

Todays computer science degrees the students learn several programming languages (such as python, Java Spring,.net) cyber security, data modelling, problem solving, mobile app development, front end web and back end database /system of record design and much more.

On a 4 yr degree with a placement year, they do live project work, enter coding completions with large corporates and so on.

3rd year gap year students as an Intern can earn £22k +

I also advocate for apprenticeships however - as everyone's learning style is different, but the current implementation of these falls quite short at degree level in terms of exposure and opportunity. It's limited to what the company offering the apprenticeship have a preference for in terms of technologies, languages and industry standards.

I think you should consider both so you can get under the detail of what learning outcomes and tech skills are actually achieved on each, and which will set him up best for the future.

Either way a degree from a “top university”really isn’t necessary. My husband says over and again it’s experience that is what is important and where a degree was done is not high on the importance scale.Son really isn’t keen on doing a computer science degree but if he went down that route I don’t think we’d waste much time worrying about what Uni it came from.

I agree it doesn't need to be a top university. Just one with thorough learning outcomes in his field of choice.

Same is said for an apprenticeship programme.

Is it actually a degree level apprenticeship he's applying (3/4 years) for or HND level (15 months)

Degree apprenticeship.

The thing is when you leave Uni you have zero experience and getting jobs when competing against those with experience is tough. Companies are always going to have a preference for those that have had some working experience of a language.

Well no, if you do the 4 yr degree with 3rd year work placement. Many end up with job offers from their placement firm for when they qualify, having already been employed for a year.

I personally would preference a degree at Uni or HND on apprenticeship, based on course completion rates and employability.

Apprenticeship degree is a very long slog with non of the peer to peer support and team work in a group cohort.

Apprenticeship degree is a very long slog with non of the peer to peer support and team work in a group cohort.

Course is same length of time and surely in these times although there are less Uni days peer to peer support from others doing the same degree is easier virtually.
Also how much team work is involved will depend on the job with the apprenticeship and both degrees.