Open days - does and don'ts

[balzamico]

So we're starting to think about visiting unis for application next year.
How do we get the most out of our visit?

When I was looking round unis as a mature student the parents totally dominated the question sessions.

Some unis get around this by separating prospective students from their parents for talks and tours.

Wear comfortable shoes.

Ds went on his own and tbh it was a bit crap. At ALL of them close to everyone else had at least one and often two parents with them. He got into a bit of a scrap trying to get into a applicant only subject talk at one place because there was no room as it was rammed with middle aged people who were unlikely to be applicants given that they were all accompanied by 17yos. They did let him in in the end but he had to stand up. At a different uni he said the person doing the accommodation tour was talking nicely to the parents but was dismissive when he asked stuff (may have been stupid questions tbf but they made him feel a bit like a naughty kid interrupting the proper grown ups talking). There was also nobody to talk to in “dead time” or on tours because all the other applicants just talked to their mums. If I didn’t work I would probably go with him. I think if he wasn’t confident or capable enough to go on his own then I wouldn’t be rushing to help fund him through university anyway, but I don’t think they “need” to go alone to prove some point apart from its useful to see how much of a pita the journey is if it is a factor.
What you focus on is very student dependent. For some people the course content may be crucial with a lot of variation between institutions. How many contact hours? What is the assessment? Is there much flexibility and module choice? Accommodation is very important to some - can you choose? Can you afford it? In the olden days I rejected an entire university as ALL halls were catered and I’m not really up for eating someone else’s cooking for a term at a time. Other people would reject for the opposite reason. If they are sporty are the facilities convenient and good. Can they play their sport recreationally as part of a club if they don’t make the team? How far away is accommodation from lectures? How far from the shops/town? Is there a supermarket within walking distance? What are the job prospects?

I think if he wasn’t confident or capable enough to go on his own then I wouldn’t be rushing to help fund him through university anyway,

You sound very dismissive and unsupportive. It isn't fair to assume that all 16 and 17 year olds are confident enough to do this on their own. Young people develop at different rates, and just deciding not to support your DC through university because they were unconfident at 16/17 is rather harsh.

At 16 DD wasn't confident enough to do uni visits on her own (she is a July born), but at 19 she was confident enough to go Interrailing around Europe. Go figure.

You sound very dismissive and unsupportive

My children would disagree but I’m sure you know best.

Look at the local area and what they can do outside of the usual uni work r.e. hobbies and likelihood of being able to get a part time job. A good community will be important as they will likely be there for at least a few year.

My children would disagree but I’m sure you know best.

Yes, I know my child best. When she was in year 12 if I had told her to do open days on her own she just wouldn't have gone. Should I have withheld support?

Yes, I know my child best. When she was in year 12 if I had told her to do open days on her own she just wouldn't have gone. Should I have withheld support?

I don’t really gaf, m8. I’m not funding your child. I’m not complicit in your child taking out huge loans. I don’t know your child and whilst I wish her will in a vague way, I’ve never actually met her and have no idea if university is the right path for her or why on earth you wouldn’t support her to do something else if that was more suited to her. I was giving my view of MY CHILD’S experience of attending an open day alone to the OP. I think it’s a perfectly valid perspective and one that I hadn’t considered before ds went on an open day as whilst I knew parents often went, I don’t think that out of hundreds of prospective students, the number attending alone would be in single figures and I hadn’t considered how that had changed the dynamic. I certainly didn’t expect parents to attend applicant only sessions meaning there was standing room only for applicants or for staff to not engage with him when he asked questions about accommodation.
My child (not yours), specifically the one I was talking about is neurotypical and without and learning disability or mental health problems. If he was incapable of going to an open day then, yes, I would have serious misgivings about him being capable of leaving home and embarking on a rigorous course of study 18 months later. I think it would be indicative of a broader problem (such as he didn’t want to go) or that he needed to grow up for a bit first (again, my child, not yours - I know you are struggling with my posts not being about your child). As I mentioned in my earlier post, which you seem to have missed despite reading it carefully enough to call me “dismissive and unsupportive”, I would have gone with ds had I not been working (I “support” him and my other 3 children financially). He only wanted to go to 3 (dropped from 4 based on finding out the journey was impossible in a day and he didn’t want to feel he couldn’t get back if he needed to) one of which was an Oxford college which weren’t running open days (covid) and he arranged a visit on a day I was working so clearly he didn’t mind. I paid for the train (#supportive) and for all of them I talked to him at length before and after and walked through the routes from the train on Google earth. I took him to the station, collected him AND FaceTimed him while he was there. I even looked up nice places to get breakfast and found out where the Chinese bakeries were for snacks. What a dismissive and unsupportive arsehole I must be. Again, this was MY CHILD, not yours. If you think actively encouraging a 17yo to take on £60k in debt and be financially responsible for him to the tune of around £20k and encourage them to move far away when they are not ready then it’s obvious that our definitions of “supportive” are wildly different. University is not for everyone and it’s completely fine to chose a different path. It is also a significant financial and emotional commitment despite it being treated by so many mc parents as a rite of passage between the end of school and the start of life. I can hardly comprehend the privilege it must take to embark upon it so casually.
Please don’t @ me any more, I find you more than a little rude and I’ve no intentions of “justifying” my completely ordinary actions to you any further. It’s really not my business if your child didn’t want to go to an open day 2 years ago and I’ve no idea why you are being so weird at me because my child chose to go alone rather than not go at all. I have no idea why you think it’s fine to @ me and call me “dismissive and unsupportive” and I’m not going to engage with your odd defensiveness any more.

Oh dear. It seems like I have touched a nerve.

A lot of young people mature a lot between the ages of 16 and 18, but it seems like some young people become mature and confident the moment they reach 16. It took my daughter a little longer than that.

You are right @RampantIvy
I don't think it is your posting that is rude or unhelpful. I 100% agree about how much they mature between 16 and 18.
My dc are / were actually pretty confident at that age, but still benefited from having a parent with them for most visits.
I think once they have done a couple, then a 3rd or 4th university visit can be easier then without a parent, as they know what to expect a little more.

To go back to OP - I agree with posters who have suggested talking to the students that are showing you around / manning stands. Ask them open ended questions. Almost certainly - if they have volunteered to work on the open day - they will be positive about the university, but asking them for one thing they really like about the university and one thing they might be a bit disappointed in, or wished were a bit better, or that their University wasn't very good at that they have heard from friends others do are quite useful questions. You get to hear about thigs you might not have thought of......things that might not bother you/ your student, or might

You are right @RampantIvy

I don't think it is your posting that is rude or unhelpful. I 100% agree about how much they mature between 16 and 18.
My dc are / were actually pretty confident at that age, but still benefited from having a parent with them for most visits

I WAS AT FUCKING WORK FFS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Seriously, what’s wrong with you all? I’ve literally said I would have gone if I hadn’t been working AND I’ve said I think it would be better for ds if I had gone, AND I think ideally parents should go (not to applicant only bits, to be clear). I haven’t said other random dc who I’ve never met and know nothing about should have to go alone on pain of death or that everyone must be confident all the time. Ds actually isn’t massively confident, just a normal amount but it’s mind blowing that we have gone in maybe 30 years from open days are for applicants, to parents sometimes go to parents are virtually obliged to go to if you go without parents then you possess almost freak levels of confidence and your mum is dismissive and unsupportive. I know a lot of this is to do with the huge changes in the funding model and parents rightly should know what they are paying for but still. I can’t help it if other peoples dc “wouldn’t” have gone alone but the reality of my situation is if he wouldn’t have gone alone then he wouldn’t have gone at all. It’s the reality of my bank balance that I can’t support a university degree without some thoughtful consideration. I get that other people can, and that sort of freedom must be lovely but I’m just not in that place. It’s the reality of my background that I don’t see university as the only path or think that someone who doesn’t go has had “support withdrawn”. Honestly, read my post. I said it was “a bit crap” for him going alone and now randomers are being arseholes and passive aggressively pretending that they “oh dear, touched a nerve” with an almost Owen Jones level of DARVO.

Only on Mumsnet could suggesting a 17yo think twice about taking on a £60k debt (both firm and insurance choices are London before you get arsey with me) plus being dependent on me to top up to max loan to the tune of £5ishk a year to do something for 3 years that they can’t be arsed to put themselves out for for one day be reframed as “withdrawing support”. Only in bizzaro-land could this be interpreted as telling a stranger that she must also withdraw support for their child.

Sorry your thread has had a temporary derailing, OP. I genuinely thought ds’s experience of going it alone was interesting and very different from my own experience. Apparently I was wrong and it was just a nasty dig or something, or an indication that I “withhold support” etc or “unhelpful and rude” fml.

One thing I would do is ask second and preferably third years where they live and when in first year they sorted out their accommodation. If it was October and they live 30 miles away (Warwick ad St Andrews spring to mind) then it’s an indication that accommodation is in short supply. If it’s May and 2 mins away then it’s good.
It’s not a dealbreaker but it’s a consideration. There is often lots of stress around accommodation and if they have to reserve it early then they can end up signing contracts with people they don’t actually want to live with months down the line.
If you have a child who is interested in nightlife then ask where they go for a good night out. Some universities in small places don’t have a lot of nightlife so it’s normal to get a train to a larger city (Loughborough, Sunderland, Durham all have an element of this). My ds1 wouldn’t care, for my dd1 who is applying for 2023 it’s practically the priority.

If funding is an issue check out the cost of private rentals and see if students can stay in university accommodation beyond 1st year (probably cheaper to move out if not a London uni tbh) or if the university runs a guarantor scheme so students without a guarantor for rent can get a private landlord to rent to them. Private halls in first year may need a guarantor too which may be something to consider.

Again it may not be relevant but if it is, ask about widening participation schemes. Ds found out about one for BAME students for his course at a university that was on his shortlist but he didn’t apply to. He may have done if he had known. He found out from a friend who was told at the open day (to late for him too at that stage). Some of the schemes you have to apply for ages in advance. DS Did UNIQ and got a lot out of it, even though it was online due to covid. It was someone he met through uniq that he visited Oxford with. Neither of them got in but it was still a good experience. Some of the schemes make you eligible for a contextual offer at the university running it.

For those mentioning parents dominating conversations on open days...I've only been to one so far, but what was very noticeable was both lecturers and students there automatically addressing me, rather than my teen, whenever we were approached. At a couple of points I had to specifically redirect the conversation towards my teen!

I myself went to Open Days with my (state) school - not completely on my own. As they seem mostly to happen at weekends now, that won't happen for my own kids. At the Open Day I attended, everyone had parents - even younger siblings (and in a couple of cases, dogs....!).

I've only been to one so far, but what was very noticeable was both lecturers and students there automatically addressing me, rather than my teen, whenever we were approached. At a couple of points I had to specifically redirect the conversation towards my teen!

Interesting you say this@IfYouCantSeeMyMirrors At Open Days, I work really hard to talk to just the intending applicant, but I find that some parents tend to keep on dominating or leading the conversation. And I have had several parents quite aggressively comment on fees and contact hours - it starts to become a somewhat insulting line of questions about my profession.

It's a tricky situation, frankly - to stay polite to the parents, but to try to get the intending applicant to talk, rather than them letting their parents lead the conversation. I don't want to be rude to the parents, but I just wish they'd accompany their teen to my stand, then walk away and leave the intending applicant on their own with me. I am then able to draw out a possibly shy teen, and can anticipate a lot of questions they may have.

The parents I enjoy talking to are the ones who push their child forward to ask the questions, and keep on prompting - if a teen s shy, this is a good way to do it - rehearse beforehand the kinds of things your DC is wanting to know about the degree, the modes of study & assessment, the expectation of hours etc etc, then please, let them get on with it.

The really useful thing that parents can do is advise their DC on questions, advice to ask about, then maybe go to the parents' talks about finances, accommodation, etc. Then meet up for lunch or whatever and swap notes. Come back and ask us anything you're not sure about. But please, let your DC do the talking. They're the person we'll have the relationship with & we are eager to help your DC to identify the information they need to help them think about the kind of degree they want to do, and the kind of university they want to attend.

He got into a bit of a scrap trying to get into a applicant only subject talk at one place because there was no room as it was rammed with middle aged people who were unlikely to be applicants given that they were all accompanied by 17yos.

I really sympathise @SimpleShootingWeekend As an academic, I have had parents literally in my face near enough shouting at me, when I have asked politely if they would stand aside so we could let all the intending applicants in first, then try to accommodate the multiple family members with them.

I pointed out that we were talking primarily to applicants, and that there were parents' events especially staged. I remember one parent who insisted her DC was not safe in a lecture room on her own.

Nowadays most of our costs & staff resource for Open Days goes to accommodating parents ... I don't get TOIL for the Saturday Open Days I work, but our professional services/administrative staff do, and we pay student ambassadors.

My main message to parents is - step back. Accompany your DC by all means, but use it as a start to developing your DC's independence. Rehearse what might be useful questions to ask, find out from your DC what things they want to discuss with academics, and help them formulate how to do that, then step back. Let your DC do the talking - bring them to us at our Open Day department stand, then go & get a cup of coffee. Then do a debrief - if there's more stuff to ask about, come back. But please let them do the talking.

@GoodThinkingMax - good points (and ones I certainly aim to follow). However, at the Open Day I attended, there was a long queue for the handful of lecturers, in a hot room. Frankly, if it had been left to the lecturers to spend time drawing out uncommunicative teens, we would all have collapsed. I was grateful to the parents ahead of me for taking charge of the conversation and moving it on quickly - and I recognised that I probably needed to do the same.

With the student ambassadors, I found it quite interesting and amusing how they automatically addressed me - they were just so deferential to all the adults, still like teens themselves!

However, we were attending a very small university in a rural location (which partly explains the dogs....), so it is probably a bit different to what you are offering.

With the student ambassadors, I found it quite interesting and amusing how they automatically addressed me - they were just so deferential to all the adults, still like teens themselves!

Student ambassadors will tend to address whoever appears to be listening to them. Staff try to avoid addressing parents instead of potential students (unless the students are already talking to someone else), but it's sometimes difficult. I really enjoy doing parents-only sessions at offer-holder days, but when students are in the room it's my job to talk to them rather than their parents.

A large part of the problem - in my opinion - is that parents are inherently embarrassing to their own children. Even if their parents are asking sensible questions, a fair proportion of teenagers will be embarrassed by them. This is why it's usually helpful to separate prospective students from their parents (and from their boy/girlfriends, come to that): some of them will ask questions for themselves if their parents aren't in the room. When I took my daughters to open days I made sure to stay as far away from them as possible, and they both managed to ask question, which neither of them would have been likely to do if I'd been hovering beside them.

This is why it's usually helpful to separate prospective students from their parents (and from their boy/girlfriends, come to that): some of them will ask questions for themselves if their parents aren't in the room. When I took my daughters to open days I made sure to stay as far away from them as possible, and they both managed to ask question, which neither of them would have been likely to do if I'd been hovering beside them.

Yes, yes, yes!

I wish parents would push their DC into the room, then go - having rehearsed some questions with your DC beforehand.

Most of us staffing Department stands on Open Days are used to shy kids - I have a spiel I can do which covers a whole lot of stuff that I've found (over 30 years of doing this) that prospective undergrads might want to know about.

Structure of the degree programme
How we assess (no unseen exams in our case!)
What sort of lab/practical work they'll do
What specialist areas within the broad discipline do we teach
What kinds of teaching - seminars, lectures, practicals etc
Options for year abroad
Nightlife (I usually laugh & refer them to our lovely lovely students - I'm not supposed to know about the nightclubs ...)
Extra-curricular activities

The reason the Open Day rooms are over-crowded, noisy & hot (I generally lose my voice after doing a morning or afternoon) is partly because some parents insist on doing the talking.

And both student ambassadors & staff are in a bind - we can't be rude and request parents stop talking or leave the room, so we can focus on the prospective applicants, so it can look as though we are deliberately paying attention to the parents. We're being polite, but we'd rather talk to prospective applicants on their own.

If you leave your DC to talk to us, then debrief afterwards, and your DC doesn't ask what you think is a crucial question you can always come back.

Also re websites
Yes, the front site for UCAS applicants is a marketing job. But if you dig around in most university websites, you can get to the working web pages for the discipline/department your DC is interested in.

Really have a good look at those. Some material with be password protected, but you'll be pleasantly surprised with some universities at how much working information is openly available. You can often find curriculum documents, working information pages we academics use to communicate with students, and so on.

It's also a good idea to look at the websites of the Student Union or Guild, and the sports centre (if that's what your DC is interested in). Loads of working information, not very much touched by marketing colleagues.

Some really helpful posts from @GoodThinkingMax

When we visited York it felt like a family outing as there were entire families there. At the subject talk they said there wasn't enough room at the subject talk that DD wanted to attend so could only prospective students attend. I don't see why they can't do this at all universities for subject talks.

.At the subject talk they said there wasn't enough room at the subject talk that DD wanted to attend so could only prospective students attend. I don't see why they can't do this at all universities for subject talks.

we’ve been to six open days. They’ve all said on their online booking forms that they reserve the right to do this on the day for the subject talks.

At the subject talk they said there wasn't enough room at the subject talk that DD wanted to attend so could only prospective students attend. I don't see why they can't do this at all universities for subject talks.

Because we have parents arguing the toss at the doorway. We ask them to step back, and some refuse. As I say upthread, I had one mother pretty much shouting at me. I don't do my job to be shouted at by rude people ...

I'm sorry you have experienced that @GoodThinkingMax. I was more than happy to leave DD to it for talks and tours. Obviously, the student finance talk was as relevant to parents as it was to students, so I did attend one.

DH took DS to his first university open day. DS went off to some practical session. Parents were given the option to go to that or stay in the lecture theatre and there was a talk about finance and how the university looks after student well-being and mental health. DH let DS go off in his own (although he would have loved to do the practical session!) Surely that is the best way to do it.

When I went on university tours many years ago it was very rare to see parents unless they were helping with transport. DH said there were very few young people without a parent with them at the open day when he went with DS

No.
Open days can be overwhelming for some young people. It is useful to have a second pair of ears.
And parents are still allowed to support their children. Doesn't mean they make the decision for them

Thanks for all the excellent advice @GoodThinkingMax

DDs are only just taking GCSEs so aren't really thinking about Uni yet but will keep it in mind for next year and do our best not to be 'those parents'.

Open days can be overwhelming for some young people. It is useful to have a second pair of ears. And parents are still allowed to support their children. Doesn't mean they make the decision for them

Well said @spotcheck. I think having a parent in the background gives the more timid prospective students a bit more confidence.

I still maintain that back in my day (1970s) that not as many students went to visit universities like they do nowadays, so the ones who did go were only the most confident ones. Did they even have open days back then?