Why are engineering degree courses suddenly all wanting AAA

[CatM1nt]

Looking at next years entry and I’m sure some were AAB previously when we looked.

We’ll this has taken a very strange turn. Sorry for the derail OP. I wish your son luck and I’m sure he’ll have no trouble securing a university place next year.

Thank you. Let’s hope things settle down in the system. Our youngsters have enough on their plates.

@CatM1nt

Well you did Thake saying he’s more privileged than your child at a private school.Not entirely sure how you came to that conclusion.

OP has said their dc is from a family of ‘engineers’ with at least one that went to a Red brick. My dc is from a African migrant family. Grandparents never went to school and none in the family have had the benefit of a UK education never mind attend a red brick on both sides. DH is the first to have a UK degree (ex poly) and has done extremely well by it. Between us have done well enough to afford private education for our dc. With all the social capital in OP’s family plus benefit of being a citizen of the U.K. for generations, I’m not so sure DS is the one with all the advantage.

If he is at a private school your son is privileged as you well know. Who on earth can afford what is essentially a salary to put a child through private school? Hardly anyone.My husband was the first to go to uni too and got his BTechs to get in at night school whilst working. His parents left school very young without qualifications, his dad learnt on the job, worked his way up and did very well for himself eventually.They were poor for many years.My dad was a gardeners son who did his training via the forces.All worked hard,got where they have from quite poor beginnings and are natural engineers. None are privileged and none could ever afford private education for their children.

Best to follow your own advice and not make wild claims without knowing the facts.

@CatM1nt

If he is at a private school your son is privileged as you well know. Who on earth can afford what is essentially a salary to put a child through private school? Hardly anyone.My husband was the first to go to uni too and got his BTechs to get in at night school whilst working. His parents left school very young without qualifications, his dad learnt on the job, worked his way up and did very well for himself eventually.They were poor for many years.My dad was a gardeners son who did his training via the forces.All worked hard,got where they have from quite poor beginnings and are natural engineers. None are privileged and none could ever afford private education for their children.

Best to follow your own advice and not make wild claims without knowing the facts.

None of this is relevant to your ds. If he's at a school which gets contextual offers then AAB will most likely be fine.

That may well be the case but think I’m justified in replying to such a ridiculous and mis informed post.

The fact your family were even living in the U.K. and had access to BTECs alone is a privilege! I don’t you think you really understand what a privilege that is. Ds is privileged in that we can afford private plus help with a bursary but my point is there is the assumption private school means coming from vast privilege and state educated equals underprivileged and almost automatic contextual offers and as you can see it’s not quite as cut and dry as you think.

To be completely frank your ds spoilt his chance of an A in the Epq by not submitting his log book on time. That doesn't suggest to me that he's an A* student. They are diligent!

You look at the child and your son is hugely privileged. He is receiving an education that costs more than many salaries and only a tiny fraction can afford. That is all.

Bryonyshcmyony

Don’t think you know what my child has gone though the past year to make that assumption. However I was talking about the change in courses moving from AAB to AAA. Never once said he was an A* student.

@CatM1nt

Bryonyshcmyony

Don’t think you know what my child has gone though the past year to make that assumption. However I was talking about the change in courses moving from AAB to AAA. Never once said he was an A* student.

I think you are very hung up on what your dcs have gone through when the reality is if he's not done the work he's not done the work (for the Epq)

Plenty of kids have had an utter shit year.

You’re the one hung up. I’ve let the EPQ go. That said on top of Covid he has had a massive amount to cope with and has done so brilliantly. We’re very proud of his predicted grades. Pulling off the 3 grades he has and an EPQ all on his own with very little support on a challenging subject is admirable frankly.

@CatM1nt

You’re the one hung up. I’ve let the EPQ go. That said on top of Covid he has had a massive amount to cope with and has done so brilliantly. We’re very proud of his predicted grades. Pulling off the 3 grades he has and an EPQ all on his own with very little support on a challenging subject is admirable frankly.

Well that's great then

Just for reference, I know a student who’s got a place at Sheffield for engineering with AAB this year. The bachelors rather than the MEng, but as someone mentioned up thread, if you get high grade averages you can usually transfer.

@CatM1nt Don’t downplay your own dc’s privilege is the message I’m trying to get across here. He is very privileged in his own way. Wether he will be eligible for a contextual offer is anyone’s guess except yours.

Says the person who doesn’t think their privately educated child is privileged.

I’ll think what I like thanks about a tiny percentage of children in schools that have massively increased As to 70%. That and the way course requirements are putting huge pressures on top of the pressures they’ve already had. That said hopefully as others have said things may well be a lot more positive than they look.

No where did I say my child wasn’t privileged, stop making things up and stop moaning about how hard done your DS is.

Your DS has a bright future and will have many options open to him, privileged background and what looks like very good grades.

He has not got a privileged background or have special rights. That is your opinion and one you are pushing to deflect from the clear advantage and privilege the privately educated have long since had which is even more evident this year. Alongside the historic advantages the state/ private divide was huge during the handling of online learning during Covid. It has also been clearly reported that private parents put more pressure on teachers for grades than state.

Not saying my son is particularly hard done by although he has had huge pressures in addition to Covid. I am simply retaliating to your points and pointing out that there is a big jump in course requirements this year. Also that all teens have enough to cope with without this additional pressure. I also pointed out the increase in state / private divide which will impact this issue and about which concerns have been raised all over the media.

Some parts of the media have mooted the possibility that grades will drop next year. I hope youngsters are kept informed as at the moment having dealt with a long period of educational uncertainty uni entry for next year will be quite worrying and stressful for many with the increased expectations. As a cohort they’ve all been impacted hugely by Covid educationally and socially. The MH pressures have been huge, a little bit of empathy and thought wouldn’t go amiss.

We know it is because he has a father with an Mech engineering degree and MSC Masters who got in to a red brick uni with BTechs and who has a successful STEM career now. One of his grandfathers was a very successful aeroplane engineer and the other an electrical engineer.

I'm not saying your son is more or less privileged than others, but he absolutely does have advantages over many other candidates for engineering. He's looking at being a third generation engineer.

I'm not sure why you think that it's all the private school students pushing up the grades - private school students are ultimately a small proportion of all students at A-level. Yes they are privileged but so is your son - he's has the connections and background to help him understand what engineering is. He's looking at being a third generation engineer. How can you not see how much of an advantage that gives him in this field? Far easier access to work experience and a family that understands what he needs to be doing (and when) to be successful. I looked at engineering when I was doing a-levels and I didn't even know what the difference between the engineering types were, let alone which would be good to focus on given my skill set. In comparison, I grew up in a family of lawyers and I absolutely understood similar differences between the legal profession and would have walked into work experience, had I wanted to go down that route.

What Trake is saying is that her son doesn't have easy access to the connections your son has. Her son has privilege through being privately educated but that doesn't mean he's starting from 100 and your child is starting from 10. It's far more complex than that.

Your son will be eligible for contextual offers if his school/background justifies it. If it doesn't, you need to accept that the reality is that this year 39% of state school a-levels were at A/A*. Your son's grades are good but they are simply not good enough the courses that are most in demand. It's only 'unfair' in the same way that it's 'unfair' that a student who is only going to get BBB doesn't have the same options your son does.

new.siemens.com/uk/en/company/jobs/search-careers/apprenticeships.html

Both grandfathers are now dead and were long since retired. Neither went to uni. Father no longer works in the Mech Engineering field. He has no connections for work experience or anything else.

If we’re talking connections the unfair connections that a private education brings have been documented for a long time.

It does seem to be a widespread concern re the 70% v 30% discrepancy between private/ state so not just me.Also when you’re looking at 70% the chances are that the more heavy subjects like physics, chemistry etc will be included, not so much on 30 so the advantage being educated privately gave with this years results is more likely to impact than state as regards places on courses such as this.

Connections aren’t a lot to do with my op. The thread indicates there does seem to be other good engineering options, I am also suspecting he may well get higher than he thinks when the dust settles or a lower offer and then there is clearing.I’m appreciative of all the advice re other options and clearing etc.

Private school kids are not just given high grades you know. There is a whole raft of reasons why they tend to out perform:

Private schools tend to be academically selective and certainly at A level you have to have high grades in every subject to get in (at my DSs school a 7 average, at least a 7 in English and maths, and a minimum of an 8 in the subject you want to take). So its an academically capable cohort to start with.
The parents of children at academically selective private schools tend towards very pushy. They are typically extremely invested in their child’s education.
Because the cohort is all capable, content is taught earlier (so for example a lot of gcse content is covered by the end of year 9 and so they spend a lot of time extending, consolidating and revising in year 11)
They are extremely strict on homework and prep being completed.
They have formal exams constantly and from a very early age and so they typically have good exam technique and are less likely to fall apart due to the stress of it all on the day.
They come down very hard on kids who misbehave and so teachers spend more time teaching.

It isn’t because they have nice lunches, regularly resurfaced sports pitches and serve posh cakes on open days. And in most cases the teachers are no better at teaching. Why would they be? Many teachers move between the state and private sectors. Many private school teachers aren’t in fact qualified teachers.

It’s unfair to suggest that these kids don’t deserve the grades they get or that they are not as clever as state school kids who get the same grades. Particularly in a normal exam year. Contextual offers are there to try to socially engineer the university cohort so that the universities are not criticised as being elitist. Not because Fred from a state school is clearly more intelligent with his A grade than Frank from a private school with his A grade. I personally am a first generation university graduate (child of a cleaner and a labourer) who, based on my address growing up would have had a maximum point contextual offer if they existed at the time. My children do go to an academically selective independent school. So I see it from both sides.

There has obviously been grade inflation over the years and at some point this will need to be addressed. But for the reasons set out above (and others) there will still be a difference in academic attainment.

I’m sure it will all be looked into by others better equipped to do so than us.

In the mean time we’ll do a bit of research re other routes, get ourself up to speed with UCAS and clearing and get ds to try and just focus on doing his best.

Which universities has he shortlisted following his visits?

He hasn’t done any visits. Covid has made that pretty tricky. Had just restarted research and he got very despondent. Wondering if he should just focus on getting the grades in next few weeks( exams in a month). Then regroup and focus on UCAS.He was interested in Sheffield. Mentioned UCL but to be honest he had just started looking and I think UCL maybe one of the impossible ones. Has been trying to narrow a field down but really not sure so going for the mechanical engineering degree. It’s hard as such a broad area and he’s still not sure of eventual engineering goal. Originally wanted to do a year abroad but with Covid not even sure if possible so not crucial.