A-levels for Medicine

[Clovie]

My dd has just enrolled at college. She wanted to do 4 A-Levels in history, maths, biology and chemistry, but after enrolment today she is now very unsure. She is a high achiever (all 8 and 9 in GCSE) and wants to do medicine. She was told at her enrolment that 4 subjects is too much and she’d be better concentrating on 3. She is now panicking about which subjects to choose and only has until Thursday to decide. Any recommendations? It’s hard to know whether she should stick with maths or show that she’s more rounded and choose history.

@NoNotHimTheOtherOne

Apologies for hijacking the thread - tried to pm but it didn’t work..

Dc is hoping to go to the USA for their degree, then look at graduate entry medicine afterwards ..do you happen to know if the courses that count as pre-med requirements in the USA would be accepted instead of chemistry/biology a levels?

I'm not sure I've understood the question, @DorotheaDiamond. Do you mind if I ask for an additional detail?

When you refer to pre-med requirements, do you mean university courses or high-school courses (i.e. High School Graduation Diploma and AP - I don't think US universities require SATs any more)?

Most graduate-entry medicine programmes in the UK are only open to students with home tuition fees status, and some have requirements for minimum A-Level grades in addition to the degree (see Cambridge as an example: www.undergraduate.study.cam.ac.uk/courses/medicine-graduate-course). Because they only accept home students, they might be unwilling to be flexible on which school-leaving qualifications have been taken.

St George's don't have any A-Level requirements for graduate-entry but they do require GAMSAT. In line with their general approach, Newcastle don't require any additional qualifications but they are always likely to have very high UCAT requirements. Newcastle asks prospective applicants with degrees from other countries to check eligibility before applying. You can look up other medical schools in the entry requirements booklet.

For graduates applying for standard 5-year medicine courses there are usually additional requirements in the form of either minimum A-Level grades or GAMSAT. It's impossible to give a blanket statement on whether they will accept non-UK qualifications for home applicants. If your daughter/son is applying as an international student they will probably be more flexible, but of course the fees will be sky-high.

Thanks @nonothimtheotherone

Dc would be home student but with undergraduate degree from USA.

USA medicine is all graduate entry so they have minimum requirement of various undergraduate biology, chemistry and maths courses which dc would do as part of a liberal arts degree…

I think dc needs to contact the universities that offer graduate entry medicine and ask…

Different UK medical schools have different requirements re first degrees. For example, Bart's & The London (QMUL) have no additional requirements if the first degree includes sufficient biology & chemistry but do have A-Level requirements for other degrees. Some only accept bioscience degrees. Some accept any degree but might have other requirements such as GAMSAT.

I think they should look at the entry requirements booklet first, before deciding what question(s) they need to put to each medical school.

Bear in mind, also, that the requirements might change over the next 3-4 years.

The number of graduate-entry places has been shrinking for a few years. A few have shut down (e.g. Leicester, Manchester) and others take fewer students than they did. This has balanced the expansion of widening-participation (WP) courses with foundation years. Uniquely, Sheffield's graduate-entry programme is itself a WP route and only certain students are eligible. Getting into a 4-year dedicated graduate-entry programme was always very, very competitive but it is even more so now. I would never advise anyone to do a first degree on the assumption that they will get a place on a graduate-entry medicine programme. Anyone doing this needs a very clear plan B. If plan B is doing a standard 5-year medicine degree as a graduate, they also need a clear plan C.

I should have added there that there are new graduate-entry courses opening (e.g. ScotGEM, University of Ulster) but ScotGEM, at least, serves a very specific purpose. There will be new medical schools opening that are graduate-entry (expect Chester this year or next, and possibly Three Counties [Worcester/Hereford/Gloucester] soon after) but these will initially only take international students as the government has not committed to creating any extra home student places.

@NoNotHimTheOtherOne

Thank you so much! Dc is not nearly committed enough to medicine yet to apply as an undergraduate (personally I do prefer the USA graduate only idea - give them all a chance to mature first)…

If your child is not fully committed to studying medicine then dont encourage them towards it. Plenty of other careers with a better work life balance and better money.

@Clovie please listen to @NoNotHimTheOtherOne - she is giving you the most accurate advice.

Dd went for chemistry, biology and history. She wants Oxford as 1st choice and Southampton as 2nd. Oxford require chemistry and Southampton require biology, so those two were necessary. She is very glad she chose history as her third as she is absolutely loving it. She got 3 A* on her first exams, so definitely made the right choices. She will be doing something related to medical history for her EPQ. My main issue now is making sure she doesn’t put too much pressure on herself and burn out!!

@Clovie good choices. Can I just be a bit of a downer. Please try and talk her out of a first choice and a reserve. Nice to know where she likes BUT you have 4 choices, and getting 1 offer is all you need. Getting stuck on favourites can make it v hard if they are rejected from those but get one of the other 4. She sounds a great candidate but it will mostly come down to UCAT and BMAT scores I'm afraid. So have 4 favourites and be v v happy if and when she gets that offer. It's not like applying for any other degree (except vet and dentistry 😊).

@Clovie

Dd went for chemistry, biology and history. She wants Oxford as 1st choice and Southampton as 2nd. Oxford require chemistry and Southampton require biology, so those two were necessary. She is very glad she chose history as her third as she is absolutely loving it. She got 3 A* on her first exams, so definitely made the right choices. She will be doing something related to medical history for her EPQ. My main issue now is making sure she doesn’t put too much pressure on herself and burn out!!

That’s a good choice, I hope she does well in her exams.

Tell her to look at Swansea, Dundee , Edinburgh and Glasgow which also have top rated medical degrees. Southampton is quite far down the league tables ( though a great uni I’m sure ) .

Dundee, Edinburgh & Glasgow are so high up the league tables because of an artefact of average entry tariffs. There is no reason to assume Southampton is a less good medical school than any of those.

...And Swansea is graduate-entry only.

@GenderAtheist if she's English then it would be nuts to apply to more than 1 Scottish Uni (quotas). To be fair, nuts to apply to anyScottish Uni as easier to get an offer elsewhere. And yup, Swansea is graduate only 😊.
Ranking means nothing for medicine. All degrees lead to becoming a doctor. The important thing is to choose the type of course you like (Oxford and Soton offer v different ways of teaching). And where your stats will get you an interview - everyone does it differently (NOT admissions criteria)
Soton, UCAT ranking
Oxford, % top grade GCSEs and BMAT

That’s very interesting, thank you for explaining @NoNotHimTheOtherOne and @mumsneedwine.

She has her heart set on Oxford, but we live a 10 min walk from Soton uni, hence it being her 2nd choice. Saving money and getting me to cook her dinner 🤣 We will be doing open days next year. Bristol, Brighton and possibly Exeter and Warwick.

Allmedicine degrees provide an equal qualification. You become a doctor certified by gmc.
League tables are for different reasons
You won't be a,lesser doctor if you don't go to oxford

@Clovie as long as she realises how each course is taught (Oxford and Southampton v different). And that 1 offer is good - if she goes to Oxford she won't see a patient for 3 years whereas at other places she'll be on the wards and at GPs from year 1.
She needs to apply to her strengths after she has done UCAT.
It's a strategic course to get in !