A-levels for Medicine

[Clovie]

My dd has just enrolled at college. She wanted to do 4 A-Levels in history, maths, biology and chemistry, but after enrolment today she is now very unsure. She is a high achiever (all 8 and 9 in GCSE) and wants to do medicine. She was told at her enrolment that 4 subjects is too much and she’d be better concentrating on 3. She is now panicking about which subjects to choose and only has until Thursday to decide. Any recommendations? It’s hard to know whether she should stick with maths or show that she’s more rounded and choose history.

medicine is competitive, so if she can genuinely cope, having four subjects will give her an edge over others.

No it won't. At various points a very small number of medical schools have made adjusted offers for people doing four A-Levels (e.g. AABB rather than AAA), but I'm not sure any are doing it at present. In the vast majority of cases, offers are based on three A-Levels and no account is taken of a fourth.

It’s not misinformation…….it’s my experience having been involved in helping students apply for medicine for nearly 20 years.

The original post asked for recommendations, and I was simply offering mine given that this is my ACTUAL job. I hope you have a lovely evening!

Hi, I have just searched my log in details as you are receiving such bad advice here.
Having gone through this successfully the last two years, my best advice would be to contact the admissions departments directly. Each course and requirements are slightly different but all of them apart from Oxbridge only require 3 A levels. Of these, Chemistry is essential for most schools. Some require Biology. Maths is NOT a requirement.
So, to give the best range of options, it is advised that you take Chemistry and Biology.
The third A level is entirely the students choice and the advice is to choose something they enjoy and will achieve the highest grade. Traditionally applicants have felt, or been advised by schools they need biology, chemistry, and maths. The medical schools are trying to change this perception as it just isn't necessary.
Psychology is popular and History would be a great choice too, if she enjoys it. Most courses now have a humanities element and social and ethical aspects of medicine. Essays are part of some medical schools curriculum too.
You really need to get the information from the medical schools you are interested in as there is so much misinformation out there.
When you are closer to applying, also look at applying strategically based on her admissions test scores too. Good luck!

Thanks for all the input, it’s given us a lot to mull over. She works so hard and is my pride and joy, I just want to help her make the best decision. She had her enrolment interview with the principal of the college and he was such a grade A Wanker that she is feeling a bit down.

Chemistry, biology and maths is the best combination, and will be the best foundation for the medical course. I did medicine without biology A level years ago, and there were topics in biochemistry and physiology which I was coming across for the first time , which had been covered in biology. Maths will be helpful for chemistry A level, and for the statistics modules of the medicine course. And if she doesn’t get into medicine or changes her mind and opts for a different science course, the same applies.
There isn’t any point doing history as well, as others have said the offer will be on 3 A levels and she needs to concentrate on those. The jump between GCSE and science A levels is huge and there will be a lot more work compared to GCSEs.
Hope she succeeds!

@Clovie

Thanks for all the input, it’s given us a lot to mull over. She works so hard and is my pride and joy, I just want to help her make the best decision. She had her enrolment interview with the principal of the college and he was such a grade A Wanker that she is feeling a bit down.

Meh, ignore him, he’s just one person.

The woman who did the interviews for my Access Science course did not want to let me on, said I was too old (31!) and wouldn’t get enough to go to even a crap Uni.

I got excellent grades, offers from 3RG Unis and a top 20.

It felt nice when she had to ring me to go back and do a talk to the following years cohort as I was the most successful from that year

@CovidCorvid

Drop history. Keep chemistry, biology and maths. They’re the standard “medic” a levels. Medical schools aren’t interested in history.

My daughter got into medical school with A levels in Drama, Chemistry and Biology.

It hasn’t been a problem at all. The drama has aided her writing and communication skills. She is expecting to graduate in one of the top deciles.

DH does admissions for a uni. One of his pet peeves is schools which encourage a mixed-bag of A Levels (eg one art, one science, one language) to seem “rounded”.

All it means to him is “we would have liked to take your child, they seem bright and enthusiastic, but unfortunately they only have two relevant A Levels and the third in some random irrelevant crap, so we can’t.

Well rounded is not what specialist degrees are looking for.

And she didn’t have triple science igcse either. She did have AS level maths, which probably helped.

The principal was asking her questions about her dad, whether he is involved in her life and why he wasn’t on her emergency contact list. Reason being he is an unreliable prick and sees the dcs as a when he feels like (once a month usually) and treats them like trophies. Dd got agitated and upset because she felt like she was being blind sided. Then she got told she should only do 3 subjects and was sobbing when she came out. I was livid!

He does sound like a copper-bottomed, ocean-going, gold-plated, weapons-grade tosser. I’m sorry she was blind-sided like that. Oh for a 17-yr old to have the confidence of a 45-yr old and respond “How is that any of your business, or relevant to my curriculum, exactly?”

My advice still stands - check the A Level requirements for the degree courses she wants to do and stick to them, don’t do irrelevant ones to be well rounded - you can do whatever you like in addition to your necessary courses to be that.

Can she not do bio/chem/maths a level and history as level?

DS does medicine. He says the A levels he's found most useful in terms of subject matter are maths and biology (not surprisingly). The one which is almost essential for entrance is chemistry.

There's no point doing 4 because medical schools only look at grades for 3. They don't look at your choices to see if you're well-rounded. They simply look to see if you've met their criteria.

Frankly, if you are well-rounded you'll be playing music, doing your sport or drama or speaking your foreign languages anyway without needing an A level in it to prove your interest.

Biology and Chemistry. Then whichever she’ll more safely get at least an A in. Maths is harder…

https://instagram.com/wearemedics?utmmedium=copyy_link

Here is a good place for her to look for information. Most universities also run outreach/widening participation programmes.

The Royal college of GPs and also Brighton and Sussex Medical School both have online work experience courses that is recognised by the medical schools for reflection.

Also, any community, voluntary, or paid work can also offer experiences to reflect on for personal statements and interviews. As well as hobbies, sports, etc. It's really not as daunting as it seems if you have the right advice to start with.

(Sorry for any errors on my posts. I have an issue with my eyes and can barely see the screen today!)

@Berthatydfil

The only one she needs is chemistry. There are resources on line that show each medical schools requirements. Some ask for biology. See the Student room forums for advice.

I don’t think any ask for maths and in fact some medical schools like subjects like history as it shows a more rounded set of subjects.
They don’t count maths and further maths as 2 separate subjects and also don’t count general studies.
They will also usually take Welsh bac or Epq.

Having had 2 dc go to med school I would say apart from chemistry chose subjects she thinks she will achieve the best grades in and will enjoy.

She should only do maths if she is pretty sure she will get an A/A*

This is good advice. My DD did biology, chemistry and maths. She has achieved an A*, A and B. The B is troubling as she may well need an A in maths to get into medicine. She has worked incredibly hard. If she is not brilliant at maths I would choose another subject. A friend of hers has just got to Nottingham to study with medicine and opted for psychology instead of maths.

My DS has just graduated from his medicine degree and did Chemistry, Biology and Geography at full A level with maths at AS. He says that biology was actually the most useful subject to have studied to help with his medicine degree.

Also just coming back to this thread
Oldest did maths but wished they hadn’t and had done history instead he’s now intercalating with an masters in medical ethics and law and says that essay writing skills greatly assist.
Youngest did A level PE as third A level as from our experience with sibling we decided on the third A level to be one he enjoyed and would do well in (which did did) rather than forcing the 3 sciences / 2 science plus maths scenario,
Both got good A levels and got into good med schools.
However it is much much more than A levels and I strongly suspect there will be less and less focus if recent history repeats itself.
She will need good work experience - try writing to your nearest hospital to find out if they do a clinical experience week, mine did. This wasn’t widely publicised and a number of the doctors were surprised they didn’t come from a family with doctors in. Volunteering - it’s got to be more than the usual DoE, mine was asked to write a summary of what they did and how it impacted them as a pre interview process.
Obviously UK cat /B mat there are courses in most big cities and recommend at least one.
Interview - sometimes schools will put on mock interviews but there are also private providers who do this.

blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2021/08/04/encourage-students-with-a-humanities-background-to-become-doctors/

Medical schools want diversity in their applicants but most are being advised incorrectly and coming through with Biology/Chemistry/Maths when it's just not necessary.

She is signed up to the vet/med programme at college, so they will help with interviews etc. I have many interesting(!) health conditions, I’ll be in hospital next week, so I will ask one of my consultants to point me in the right direction re work experience. One of them especially knows dd (she went to the same primary school as his dcs), so I will get him on the case!

Thanks SheepDogTed that’s an interesting article. I’ve sent it to dd

Consultants are a great link for work experience/talks, etc but don't forget it could have been 20+ years since they were applying to medical school. It was a very different situation then. Contact the schools directly. 😊

My daughter found that doing things like helping at Riding for the Disabled and volunteering at a care home were well thought of.

Things that are actually useful when you are doing medicine: the statistics bit of Maths A Level. Plus a small bit of chemistry.

Sadly I did mechanics and not stats and so this bit of med school (and subsequent research) was a nightmare. Those of us who hadn't done it were at a massive disadvantage compared to those who had done it at A level who clearly found it a doddle.

Stats also turns up in Biology A level and I didn't understand it there either

Definitely Maths, Biology and Chemistry. She can always go back to History later in life if she loves it.