A-levels for Medicine

[Clovie]

My dd has just enrolled at college. She wanted to do 4 A-Levels in history, maths, biology and chemistry, but after enrolment today she is now very unsure. She is a high achiever (all 8 and 9 in GCSE) and wants to do medicine. She was told at her enrolment that 4 subjects is too much and she’d be better concentrating on 3. She is now panicking about which subjects to choose and only has until Thursday to decide. Any recommendations? It’s hard to know whether she should stick with maths or show that she’s more rounded and choose history.

I agree with people who say that you don't have to have maths for medicine, but it is so useful. Both for the UCAT (you don't need A level maths to do it but being in the mode of doing maths daily at school will be a huge advantage) and for medical studies at Uni (there is a lot of maths and stats in the course at Oxford which I see that your daughter is interested in). The majority of medical students have maths, chemistry and biology - you don't have to have them but they are, in my opinion, the most useful for the study of medicine.

There are NO universities that require Physics and only one that likes Maths (Cambridge). They do not care what 3rd one is in. DD has friends who have done Art, History, English, Music, Drama and several other non sciencey subjects.
All Unis are v open about their requirements and they do not just say it - they stick to it.
My students have a range of 3rd A levels this year and 21 of them off to study medicine.

The unis may not care what the 3rd a level is in but maths, chemistry, and biology will be useful when actually doing the course.

@Sheerheight my DD says she has never used her A level maths. Has used stats and some GCSE stuff but calculus and mechanics have not popped up yet. And she's well into 4th year.

What they need is the best 3 A level grades, with Biology and Chemistry. Better to get a secure A in History than struggle to get that A in maths. New A level maths is v v hard.

@mumsneedwine is right. My son just graduated and is on his foundation year training. He did biology, chemistry and geography though he did have AS maths. He says biology has been the most useful. You need to choose the third one as the most likely to get an A* or an A. Unfortunately I think some of the advice on here is a little outdated.

Biology and chemistry are pretty much essential for medicine. Some unis claim they only want chemistry but I wouldn't go taking the risk of no biology. Plus biology will build the early foundations for medicine.

The 3rd doesn't matter too much, you get medicine students with all range of 3rd A levels but I'd want it to be a decent choice, could be a language, essay subject or maths. Maths will help with statistics, the UKCAT and also will help with chemistry A level, history will help with her essay writing skills which will help with paper writing in the future. Both could be useful for a career in medicine. It concerns me when medica say they don't use maths, what sort of papers are they reading?

Tbh I would have advised to start all 4 and see how she gets on, she can always drop one if it's too much. I did 4 with an epq and it wasn't a massive work load. She wants to do medicine at Oxford so is obviously a bright, capable girl.

She needs to start building a portfolio of work experience, St John's ambulance do a good youth programme that I would recommend doing. Definitely seek some hospital work experience and some in a GP practice, try to get a wide range. Some sort of volunteering is probably good idea as well.

3 A levels and a medical related EPQ is a good plan. This not only gives them something to discuss in detail at interview but also a few Unis give lower offers if you have an A in your EPQ.
The newer A levels are hard and it is better to easily get those A (stars if looking at Oxford) in 3 subjects. No one wants 4 !

I took my dc to the GP recently and tge GP asked which A levels she was studying (dd wants to study biology / biomedical type subject) GP told dd she had done Biology, Chemistry and History (GP was young) and that it had been a great combo. (GP was fab too).

My child's a junior doctor. They need chemistry (ask Newcastle, via a Freedom of Information request, how many people they have taken without it. I bet you dont get a straight answer but if you do it is likely to be none). Biology gives them more choice of medical school so is useful. Maths helps with the stats part of medicine, history helps with essay writing (more an issue for Oxbridge than elsewhere) so neither is critical but both offer something.

She could start 4 and see how it goes. If you look at grade markings an A is pretty common in maths, harder to be sure of getting one in history. Therefore I always advise anyone capable of it to study maths. The school would probably prefer more A grades, hence the incorrect advice on both subject choice and sticking to 3 subjects.

They need chemistry

No they don't, as has been stated repeatedly.

www.medschools.ac.uk/media/2877/entry-requirements-document-2022-digital.pdf

Some med schools insist on chemistry

Some med schools insist on chemistry.

They do. And those which do state the fact in the publication linked to above. But that's not the same as they need Chemistry as a blanket statement.

You're really limiting your options without chemistry.

You're really limiting your options without chemistry.

Agreed. But, again, it's not the same as "they need chemistry".

My dd wants to do medicine, and also thought about doing 4 A-levels. She loved history at GCSE, and she would have really enjoyed it at A-level. She also thought about psychology as a fourth choice. In the end, after researching universities, she decided to stick with just 3 A-levels and to do chemistry, biology and maths. She will probably do an EPQ with a focus on history of medicine or maybe some sort of ethics topic.

In the end, dd decided that it would be more efficient to do maths because she'd need it for the UCAT/BMAT anyway. Plus she wants to apply for Cambridge so maths seemed like a sensible choice. She decided against the fourth A-level because she wanted time for hobbies and friends as well as all of the work experience, volunteering etc. There is so much for them to do already!!!

What medical schools say they will take and what they actually take in practise are different - as anyone who has been through the process should tell you. They want lots of applicants so they can pick and choose.

Do a Freedom of Information request to any medical school that says it doesnt require Chemistry. Ask them how many applicants they have accepted without Chemistry and if any of those were 18 year old home students. I expect the answers will be none and none.

To get a place in a medical school you need to be a competitive applicant, not just to satisfy their minimum requirement for applicants.

Most medicine applicants have A-Level chemistry because that keeps the largest number of options open (and in many cases because their schools tell them they have to do it). However, students without A-Level chemistry do apply to medical schools that don't require it and they do get accepted.

Medical schools "pick and choose" on the basis of whatever they state to be their criteria for selection for interview (e.g. aptitude test scores, GCSE grades or whatever) and make offers on the basis of interview scores (some take other factors into account in offer-making, but most base it entirely on interview scores). They don't select on the basis of A-Level subject choices, other than to exclude applicants who aren't taking the subjects stated in their entry requirements. The great majority of applicants have A-Level chemistry, so the great majority of entrants will have it. That doesn't mean they were chosen because they have it.

I know my medical school has students who entered as school-leavers without A-Level chemistry (because I admitted them, and because I teach them). I know other students who I have advised have applied to other medical schools without A-Level chemistry and have been successful.

Dd did geography biology chemistry and got two great med school offers

Chemistry, biology and maths all the way. My daughter is a 4th year medic and has used her maths a lot! 🙂

I agree she should keep the four to begin with. And drop history if its too much work. I've heard biology is the most useful. Not surprisingly!

My 4th year has used basic maths but not sure her A level mechanics or integration has seen much use.

Medical schools are v transparent these days about what they require. Most need chemistry (not Newcastle !), lots need biology and most don't care what the 3rd is in. DD has friends who have done Art, Drama, History, PE, English and a whole load of other non science options. Maths needed for a few Cambridge colleges. No one else cares.

You do not need 4. You'll get no extra points for doing 4. You will get extra points for being given predicted 3 A stars (Exeter). But mostly you need to get those grades as nothing worse than getting offers and then not making them. Lots of extra stuff you can do rather than a 4th - medical EPQ as will result in lower offers at some places (Sheffield).

Medical related epq theg can talk about
and work experience volunteering to be able to answer interviews questions

Get the book
Medical School Interviews (2nd... www.amazon.co.uk/dp/1905812051?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share&tag=mumsnetforu03-21

So you can look at kind if questions
And how an epq might or might not help