DD wants to drop an A Level as she is overwhelmed, won't consider Btec

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She just scraped the GCSE entry requirements for her school's 6th form, which was 5 grade 5's. She is not naturally academic and this was a huge effort for her, however she was determined to get in to the 6th form to be with her friends. We ended up paying for tutors etc just to get her those grades, aside from the grade 5's she has a mix of 4's and 3's.

I've always felt vocational would suit her much better, she is absolutely brilliant with people and can be extremely proactive in certain situations. Not academic but absolutely excels in other ways. She has done work experience in a care home and they were so so impressed with her and stated she knew what to do and all of the procedures without even being told. She also enjoyed it as she does want to go into a health and social care sector (right now she is interested in learning disability nursing).

But she has always had her heart set on the school 6th form and A Levels as her route to uni and of course it's her choice. Teacher's etc at school did try and push her towards vocational and away from A Level which aways upset her. However 2 days into Sixth form and she is struggling massively, there has been little to no transition from GCSE to A Level content and she feels completely out of her depth and has no idea what her teachers are talking about. We've had panic attacks and tears, and she is worried as her friends seem to be coping. And teacher's also told her the first few days are the easy part and it's going to get a whole lot worse. She's announced today that she's dropping her maths A Level and just doing her other 2.

I wish she would go to college and do a Btec health and social, she would do so well in that and it's equivilant to 3 A levels and apparently unis prefer vocational training for nursing, but she won't entertain the idea. I think it stems from the fact the her school (an extremely high ranking comp in a very wealthy area, 20% of students picking up 8-9's in at least 5 GCSE's) has lots of very academic students and her friends are in this group, some of them are being pushed for Oxbridge. I think she feels as though she needs to keep up with them but deep down I believe she knows vocational would suit her better. It's just a case of getting her to realize it's in no way inferior.

Is anyone else's DC in a similar position? I know I can't force her to do anything and I'm not going to try but I'm just wondering how you would deal with such a situation? I have tried to say to her that she is more than capable of scoring top grades in Btec, and that will look so much better on a uni application than 2 scraped passes in A Level, but she will not have it. Persoanlly I think she's going to come to this conclusion herself sooner or later, but I don't want her to change her mind half way through the year for obvious reasons.

Can you suggest she keeps her eye on the prize- a nursing degree course with a good job at the end of it? I know people who went to Oxford who struggled to get jobs after their degree and two who went there retrained to become nurses and midwives. Vocational courses are the way to go in the current climate. Look at the entry requirements together and show her that Btec courses are fine/ preferred? Could she do them at her school or will she need to move to a college? She needs to do what is right for her.

As @daisypond says - she should keep her eye on the prize. Maybe call a few universities and ask what percentage of the coming year intake has a btec and what grades?

I'd push the btec and as pp says the prize of what she wants to do afterwards! Eldest DD has just finished A's and has 3 friends who whilst having done As and one a mix of btec and an a level are all basically repeating the past 2 years doing only Btecs because the Btec is actually what they need to go on into the field I which they wish to work! I also know that struggling through A levels is hell and the jump now is enormous and all about memorising! If I were a student now I'd definitely do a btec and I was a very capable student and got 4 A levels with As and Bs

Is there a minimum standard she will need to obtain by the summer/Christmas? My dd’s school had one, and those that didn’t achieve it had to leave school mid way through. It will vary from school to school. They often ended up going to college and doing Btecs a year later. Many did extremely well and ended up at top ten universities.

Only doing 2 A levels will severely restrict choices of university. She may get onto a foundation degree but to be honest, unless there were extenuating circumstances as to why she got Grades 4/5 she will struggle to get decent A level grades. Grnersllyvits accepted the most common grade to achieve at A level is a grade lower than that achieved at GCSE so she’s potentially looking at D grades. Most schools I know ask for a minimum GCSE Grade 6 in subjects to be taken at A Level & Grade 7 in maths.

My Ds would struggle massively st A level but he is luckily convinced the Btec Route is the best.

I do think she may need to find out the hard way, I am concerned on what her A levels are for there being such a jump in two days. DS1 felt overwhelmed at A levels the first term. If she is determined to stay, is there any A levels with a coursework element to take some pressure off final exams that she could change to. Worse case scenario she loses one year and starts again next year on the BTEC. Has she looked at social sciences instead of nursing lots of pathways into working with people. Friends child’s going to university with CCC and one A level was photography (difficult but spaced out so less exam pressure). She maybe better seeing if there are any chances of changing subjects that require no previous GCSE. I think your sixth form hasn’t helped. DS1 did Math and the required grade was 7 and he struggled in the first term.

I would also say with maths at GCSE DS1 maths class was top set and were already doing advanced work and took an extra exam. Your DD might be struggling because the others in the class may have already experienced the subject matter.

With those grades she could get distinctions at BTEC if she’s diligent - far better than two scraped A level passes.

If she’s not sure about nursing, would social work suit her? What are the other A levels she is doing? She wouldn’t need to do maths or a science.

Tbh, a 5 at GCSE is not enough to support A level maths. What is the school thinking of even allowing her to do it? Its not fair on her, and you can bet they'll kick her out if she doesn't come up to scratch in mocks.
Maths is really hard at A Level, its still such early days, could she switch to a different A level if she really won't entertain the BTech?
Have to say, the BTech does sound by far the better plan.

I feel that the school has been irresponsible in allowing her to consider A levels with those grades. A levels are hard. DD took A levels in subjects that she achieved A* in, and still found them difficult.

What on earth were the school thinking by allowing someone with a grade 5 to do maths A level? Most schools don't recommend anyone with less than a grade 7 to take it. Usually they ask for an 8 or a 9.

She sounds a fabulous young woman, and good for her working to get her GCSEs.

Having just watched DS find A level Maths hard after getting a 9 at GCSE I would say she did the right thing dropping Maths.

Can you show her great courses she could access with the BTec, even go and visit over the next couple of weeks?

I think she’ll struggle more and more until she feels a complete failure and is left with limited options.
You need to phone a local provider and take her to visit a couple. Don’t leave it too long as she’ll miss too much and find slotting into the group harder. She sounds much more likely to meet university entrance from Btech than through A levels. Transferring will open up far more opportunities. You need to do a big sell and take control.
Poor girls done well, really well but A levels are a huge ask for her.

They required a 6 for A Level maths, she was a marginal amount of marks below that. She did brilliant and I don't mean this to sound like I'm brushing off her achievements as I'm so incredibly proud of her, but it's not something that came naturally, IYSWIM? If it wasn't for the year of intense tutoring and asking teachers to give her extra support (and us also having to beg them to let her do the higher paper!) then she would have scored a lot lower.

Again, I'm not saying her maths grade is invalid, but she had to push herself to the limit to achieve that and I think she underestimaed the step up A Level would be. They did end up letting her go onto A Level maths due to the small margin of missed marks, and her tutor and maths teacher also put in a good word about her motivation and effort to the 6th form. But it's all irrelevant now as she's come to the conclusion it's beyond her and has given up.

She is not thick by any stretch of the imagination, she is very wordly. We've had many a discussion in the car about politics, Brexit, the NHS crisis and the human brain etc. She has very well formed opinions and can debate exceptionally. I think she would do amazing in Btec because it gets her out into the world where she can actually use such skills, whereas the "taking down notes repeatedly and trying to revise it it all constantly before the exam" approach really doesn't/won't suit her.

I think her need to do A Level's has come from pressure from her friends. Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against them, they are lovely girls and I have no doubt they just want to see DD do well (also would much rather she was friends with them than the ones who don't give a shit!) but they are all extremely academic bound for RG uni types and I think the constant encouragement and "No A Level's are better you can do them with us!" has done more harm than good and has lead to DD overwhelming herself trying to satisfy them. It's not malicious what they are doing but perhaps a bit oblivious.

I mean this kindly but is there any point only doing 2 A Levels? She won’t get into university with only 2, so it’d essentially be a waste of 2 years, especially if she isn’t enjoying those 2 years.

It sounds like she would be more suited to a level 3 course

I would question the motives of a tutor of maths advising and recommending A level if they needed a year of tutoring for the GSCE. No disrespect to your DD but many of her peers taking maths would of achieved a grade 5 (c) at the end of year 9. Sometimes people take their best marks and do the A level in that subject but STEM subjects require a natural ability and hard work or extremely hard work and an uphill battle. Now politics A level DS1 who is not the strongest at essay based subjects loved. His fourth choice but decided to take the AS at further Maths and keep Politics, she would start afresh at the same knowledge base as her peers if not ahead if she is already interested. You may be in a no win situation if you push too hard for BTEC it will always be you that never had faith in her ability or if you let her fail it was you that did not help her. The sixth form might not allow her to do 2 A levels. She will be OK though because she wants to learn and that is the most important. Her self esteem does seem low in her decision surrounding friends and needing friends. I can understand that but she seems more afraid of being alone than failing A levels.

Is she allowed to do 2 A levels? I thought you had to do 3 these days for funding reasons? Does the sixth form offer any "smaller" level 3 btecs which are equivalent to an A level as a compromise so eg she could two A levels and a BTEC in something else?

But otherwise it does sound like the BTEC would suit her better. She needs to realise (in the nicest possible way) that we are not all the same and what her friends are doing is right for them and she deserves to do what is right for her.

For example, at the 6th form college ds will be going to, you can do a Health and Social Care Level 3 Single Diploma www.qmc.ac.uk/sites/qmc.ac.uk/files/Health%20and%20Social%20Care%20Level%203%20Single%20Dip.pdf

outing which college but doesn't matter

Full time is considered to be more 12 hours per week of supervised study not including homework, free periods or lunch breaks.

Her Head of Year or Tutor or appropriate person at her school need to talk to her about this.

My Dcs school don't let anyone do Maths A level with less than a 7.
With good reason.

She needs to talk to school when she stops her Maths - and they need to take some responsibility for advising her. 2 A levels will not serve her well, especially when she has such potential to do so well in a BTec.

BTecs are not an easy option!

Research some courses that she would be interested in and that she could do with a BTec, and show her how she would not get onto various courses with 'only' 2 A Levels.

But, school should be doing this!

Does her school 6th do BTecs?

That's very tough. Sadly with that background sadly there's no way she should be doing A level maths.

Can she do BTECs or a mix of A levels and BTECs at the same place, or would that mean moving? I think that's the nub of it. I can totally understand her wanting to get in to be with her friends. I have known kids in the same position and sometimes it has worked out, but sometimes it has not. When it doesn't work, you can end with an upsetting mid-year or end of first year change. Unfortunately, if she's dead set on staying, that might be something she has to work through.

Sorting out a plan B right now might be a good idea. DD did BTECs, but only after fairly spectacular failure. She has done very, very well with the BTEC framework and it has really built her confidence. It is much more of an accepted pathway than many people understand.

My dd was the same. She dropped Biology and took Health anda Social Care BTEC (the one that is equiv to 1 x A level). She did really well and is off to uni in a couple of weeks. Ended up with B and C in the A levels and a D* in the BTEC and an A in her EPQ.

She had a meeting with the head of 6th form today to discuss dropping Maths. She asked me to come.

They were quite firm and honest with her and reminded her that she had been struggling massively in her other 2 A Levels as well. They stated that they understand students can be shocked by the jump, but they do examine students around the Christmas period and if they aren't coping well enough by then, then they take them off the course. They made it clear that it's for the student's sake and that most of them do then go off to Btec at college (school doesn't offer them). The head also told DD she was doubtful that DD would manage to get on top of A Level's before Christmas. The head said DD could carry on until Christmas if she wanted but that it's likely she would not be allowed to continue post Christmas if she is already struggling so much now, so they recommened she goes to college ASAP rather than going in 3 months. The head explained to DD that she things she would do fab in Btec and it's great for her chosen career.

DD was devastated but I personally am glad that the tutor was honest with her rather than sugar coating it and telling her she'll get on top of it. And while the head has offered her a chance to prove herself before Christmas she was obviously pushing DD not to bother. She has been quiet all evening, just up in her room. It's her decision but hopefully she can come to terms with it. She will smash Btec if she does it, I know it.

So sorry she's going through this.
I agree that with two A-levels she'd be lucky to get on a degree course with all the competition she would likely face and it doesn't sound like a foundation degree would be very appealing to her if she was offered that in the future.
It sounds like she has tried to keep up with her peers and is probably worried that they'll leave her behind.
Twenty years ago when I did my A-levels anything other than A-levels and your chance of uni was severely compromised. Today, its completely different as you know. I think she needs to do some research and look at entry requirements to Universities she is interested in attending in the future.

Horrid for her but better in the slightly longer term to make positive choice to move rather than being asked to leave.