DD wants to drop an A Level as she is overwhelmed, won't consider Btec

[micellargin]

She just scraped the GCSE entry requirements for her school's 6th form, which was 5 grade 5's. She is not naturally academic and this was a huge effort for her, however she was determined to get in to the 6th form to be with her friends. We ended up paying for tutors etc just to get her those grades, aside from the grade 5's she has a mix of 4's and 3's.

I've always felt vocational would suit her much better, she is absolutely brilliant with people and can be extremely proactive in certain situations. Not academic but absolutely excels in other ways. She has done work experience in a care home and they were so so impressed with her and stated she knew what to do and all of the procedures without even being told. She also enjoyed it as she does want to go into a health and social care sector (right now she is interested in learning disability nursing).

But she has always had her heart set on the school 6th form and A Levels as her route to uni and of course it's her choice. Teacher's etc at school did try and push her towards vocational and away from A Level which aways upset her. However 2 days into Sixth form and she is struggling massively, there has been little to no transition from GCSE to A Level content and she feels completely out of her depth and has no idea what her teachers are talking about. We've had panic attacks and tears, and she is worried as her friends seem to be coping. And teacher's also told her the first few days are the easy part and it's going to get a whole lot worse. She's announced today that she's dropping her maths A Level and just doing her other 2.

I wish she would go to college and do a Btec health and social, she would do so well in that and it's equivilant to 3 A levels and apparently unis prefer vocational training for nursing, but she won't entertain the idea. I think it stems from the fact the her school (an extremely high ranking comp in a very wealthy area, 20% of students picking up 8-9's in at least 5 GCSE's) has lots of very academic students and her friends are in this group, some of them are being pushed for Oxbridge. I think she feels as though she needs to keep up with them but deep down I believe she knows vocational would suit her better. It's just a case of getting her to realize it's in no way inferior.

Is anyone else's DC in a similar position? I know I can't force her to do anything and I'm not going to try but I'm just wondering how you would deal with such a situation? I have tried to say to her that she is more than capable of scoring top grades in Btec, and that will look so much better on a uni application than 2 scraped passes in A Level, but she will not have it. Persoanlly I think she's going to come to this conclusion herself sooner or later, but I don't want her to change her mind half way through the year for obvious reasons.

It's a horrible position for her to be in right now, but it's much much better to make a decision herself now and get onto the btec at the start when she won't have too much to catch up on.

Tbh, with a 5 in maths she was never going to manage maths A Level. I suspect it might be similar with her other subjects as well. At my school she wouldn't even have been allowed onto the course without a high 6. She would have needed 6s in the subjects she wanted to do for A Level and at least 5 Grade 5s altogether.

Could she go and look round a college to help her make a more informed decision?

It’s really good that she wanted to take you with her, and she is obviously so receptive to support, having made the best of her tutoring and done well.

She’ll be OK with you supporting her through this.

Good luck to you both.

She will be feeling like a failure just now, but staying on until Christmas will make her feel more of a failure.

Today's conversation should have happened on results day, not today. I think the school have been wrong to encourage her to do A levels, especially maths.

She needs to transfer to college now, not at Christmas.

Most schools I know insist on a 7 in GCSE maths to take it at a level because it is so much more advance. There is a core maths which is equivalent to an AS level that is suitable for grade 5 and above. Does her school offer it?
I think it is highly irresponsible of her school to allow her to do courses she will clearly struggle in

It's a horrible position now but she needs to look at the future.
With those grades achieved by tutoring there is no way they're an A Level candidate. She's worked hard and should be proud of GCSEs but she needs to think about what she wants.

2 A levels will hinder her and if she's not academic then they'll be low grades most likely.

She's better off doing a vocational coutse worth 3 a levels and using that for university entry, or looking at an FE/6th form college that offers a slimmed down vocational courses alongside an A Level (perhaps as 2 slots and an a level for the 3rd)

Horrid for you both short term but definitely sounds like it's the right decision for her to go to college. Any sixth form that accepts a grade 5 student on Maths A Level is clearly not brilliant! A level Maths is there for the best of the best, high 7 or above is minimum requirement.

Loads of my students at uni took Btecs rather than A Levels. Don't follow this advice though Maybe call a few universities and ask what percentage of the coming year intake has a btec and what grades? First no one would be able to answer it and secondly no one is going to. This is one of the busiest times of the year for everyone working at a uni.

Tough for her now but I hope she comes to terms with the Btec route quickly. She sounds like a daughter to be proud of.

I was very academic in school. As and bs at gcse. And I did a btec and 1 a level. Got into university of Birmingham. Got a 2:1.

Not saying this to gloat. But maybe she can hear this and know a btec is not the end of the world.

However since graduating, I have wished I did an apprenticeship. This leads straight into work. Everyone has a degree these days! Something to consider.

What about a nursing apprenticeship? There are also some different routes into it. It might be worth looking into it.

I think she's coming round to it, she still insists she wants to stay on until Christmas and try to do A Level but has just agreed to come to a meeting I've arranged for her at the college where they are going to show her all of the Btecs they offer etc. It is horrid for her basically being told by the school she's spent 5 years at that she's not up to scratch for them but hopefuly soon she'll begin to look to the future and uni etc.

Praying college will impress her and she'll decide to start. Would rather she did that than struggle on until Christmas only for them to send her away meaning she has to start a Btec 3 months behind, eek.

@posterduckling84 I was shocked they let her do maths A Level too tbh, and that they usually let students on with a 6 (that she narrowly missed)! I'm tempted to ask about that but might be pointless.

Does she even need Maths for nursing? Why not psychology? Could she not switch to a different subject?

Staying on until Christmas is a really bad idea. Would college even allow her to start BTECS in January?

You can't start a btec 3 months behind. You are assessed almost straight away.

She should go to college and do a 3 A level equivalent BTEC in Heath and Social care. It is perfect for nursing! She wouldn't have been allowed to do a levels with those grades at dds school. Not to do her down but she's silly to put herself through this when there is a great and better alternative.

I honestly think the school is negligent allowing her to take A levels. 5s 4s and 3s really aren’t the grades to do A level. She’s far more suited to BTEC. Our school is very strict that students need at least 6 x 6. Any less and they say it’s too hard for them. Maths is very very strictly no less than a 7 and actually my son who is got a fairly high 7 was told he could do maths but that they were concerned it would be too much and they preferred an 8. There really is no point doing poorly in A levels when you can do really well in a BTEC

Or i think theres an applied science btec

Yes i agree the school has been negligent. Poor kid, i know she wants to be with her mates but she'll be so grateful shes done it when she gets inti a good uni to do nursing

Google the national diploma in health studies. Its equivalent to 3 a levels, theres no exams and you can go on to do various healthcare degrees or i think strightaway as a paramedic. It looks absolutely brilliant.

She has to cut her losses now. Right now. Or....

Everyone has 'anecdata', here's mine:

DS1, academically 'OK', but lazy (I don't distinguish. If they're 'rilly bright', but 'layzee'- they've still failed to get adequate marks.). To be fair, he got AABBBBBBCC. But 2 Bs were in his A level choices, Maths and Physics. Third was the Geog, an A.

Sixth form did the commendable 'we really value effort' thing. 'Best' sixth form option (okay, Peter Symonds, Winch) would (correctly) not allow a B grade onto their Maths A level. His chosen sixth form- did.

He 'soldiered' on from Sept-Dec; all suggestions that he was struggling met with an eye roll, Maths turned to (soft)'Use of Maths'-then, parents evening, Feb, we were summoned. By this stage, he, and I- knew it was all over. 3 very low grade A levels aren't worth the paper they're written on. But I think the shock to him was that his tutors werent that bothered. So used, was he, to the ra ra squad of teachers urging him on, to have teachers saying 'you're failing, sunshine'- came as a surprise to him.

However, in the interim, I had forensically researched BTECs. To the extent I forced him to learn to drive as the closest appropriate college was a 25 mile drive away! 😊 He, during that (abortive - yet, not) year had mentioned 'Computing'.

But, for the OP, the biggie- I worked with a young, degree qualified radiographer who told me he'd screwed up his ASs, transferred to Applied Science BTEC (3A level equiv) thence into uni to do radiography. Which is where I learned about these 'A level' BTECs.

Luckily, our closest tech suddenly offered this 3 A level equivalent BTEC in computing, literally last minute. But by the time DS was applying, Feb-ish, he knew it was all over for him and A levels.

It wasn't a total epiphany- we had midnight deadline sessions with him and DH sniping at each other- but he achieved D star D star D in this computing BTEC and is now heading into Y2, software engineering, looking at a 1:1.

25% of uni entry is with BTEC. Okay, we're not talking Oxbridge, or even that many RG. But there are solid degrees to be had.

As for the 'not wasted' lower sixth. DS achieved a D in Economics AS, E in Geog. And a year's maturity. And a recognition A levels weren't for him.

And a first year 'cruisin' at uni as the BTEC had already covered much of the ground in computing...🙄😊

@posterMiljah Wow, your DS sounds amazing! I have heard that Btec students actually cope better at certain uni subjects as they've already had plenty of experience in the subject, rather than A Level students who go into more vocational degrees having just done exams in vaguely relevant subjects.

I think I might send part of your post to DD...will tell her I found it somewhere else on the internet though as she will be horrified if she hears I wrote a MN thread about her...

Is there anything she really wants? I bribed DD1 with a rescue dog ( don't worry, we already had two and I was planning to get a 3rd anyhow) to stay at her school's 6th form. The other ones she was looking at were miles away and involved precarious travel plans.
I agree that a Btec sounds like a much better idea.
DD2 got pretty good GCSE results and has still elected to do a Btec becuase she doesn't like exams.
I did start talking to her about her options at the end of Y10 though and we went to visit colleges in Y11.

She is having difficulty in separating from her friends and admitting she’s not suited to A levels. The school should have said she didn’t qualify for their 6th form and then you would have not had this issue right now. She still would have wanted to stay with her friends but the school chose the “bums on seats” model of 6th form admission and that is very wrong.

If she’s not going in for a 100% academic degree, then BTec is just fine. Doors won’t be closed and could actually be opened over applying with virtually failed A levels.