GCSE '18s (19) - New Beginnings?

[whistl]

Following on from the GCSE 2018 threads as our DC enter year 12.
This the first thread in our new home in further education

DS and DD s school are just cottening in and running information evenings and trips for alternative routes - a bit late but getting there. Interesting thing about apprenticeship is that it is always via interview and often job style assessment days so may suit those who are personal and knowledgeable/passionate but maybe not stellar grades. DD friend needed three b s but was the sort of person who would excel at assessment days. And as you say being the son of a director didn’t help with contacts/getting him in but probably did help with personal skills and wider knowledge base

His degree is over three years so doesn't even take longer but as you say is very hard work and not for those not academically able. DS will probably be look king at the next level down which may suit him better.

No denying university can be a great experience for some - it was for me - and although I used none of the content later I probably did learn how to learn. It’s great that there is choice though after a few years of university being the only option mentioned by schools

You are right, there is an online assessment, half a day of interviews/observed team working (e.g. 3 teams build a bridge out of paper that will hold a cup of water)

The funny thing is that most of the applicants think we are looking at the technical bridge solution whereas in reality we barely look at the end product. We are interested in how they plan the project, whether they test their ideas, whether they ask us questions (which is good) and how they interact with each other. Do they get stuck in? Do they listen to the opinions of their team? How do they deal with conflict? Do they get the balance right between influencing and listening (some get bullied even when they are right whilst some take over trying to make an impression - normally a bad impression). Have they listened to the brief (they have a giant stack of paper but we verbally tell them they can only use a maximum of 50 sheets - we don't specify whether that's 50 sheets for the bridge including the prototypes unless they ask and most don't even hear the 50 sheet instructions)?

....I have been part of the team work tests a couple of times and it has been fascinating and way more revealing than a standard interview!!! I was also shocked by how few of them asked for clarification despite being given really sketchy instructions. My favourite was the team who huddled together for 10 mins discussing the options, asked if they could use sellotape, I said yes and gave it to them, they then scrunched 10 pieces of paper into 5 balls, put them 5cms apart, stuck them to the floor, put 5 strips of sticky tape between each one, put the cup on it then went out to the kitchen and had a cup of coffee together as a team. They were all given the job. They were brilliant.

Oratory what is the level down from degree apprenticeships? When I’ve had a (brief) look they’re didn’t seem anything in between degree apprenticeships and those for applicants with only GCSEs.

Remind me of the route your DS2 is planning to take EllenJane - my DS2 (also has ASD like DS3 in Y12) has A levels (BBC grades). He withdrew from uni - although he’s bright he really struggles with independent learning and organisation. He’s currently doing work placements (part of an organised scheme for those on the spectrum). He’s now looking for a job - but assessment processes like the one bpisok talks about are so hard for him.

Looking at the links Peggy posted

.... and have already answered my question to Oratory! Looks like it’s ‘higher apprenticeships’ that my DS2 should be looking at which are ‘foundation degree’ level.

Hi I haven't really looked in to it yet but I believe you can do level 4 or level 5 apprenticeships which are post A level but not degree. They may be more specific to a particular workplace than the degree level ones. The benefit of the one DDs friend did is that he will come out with a general business degree so would be able to change track if he wanted to later on.

That's the ones ! The public sector/civil service also seem to do a lot too at that level.

Some of DDs peers also went straight in to the workplace (a sort of indefinite gap year) as they aren't sure what they wanted to do. One had a deferred uni place but actually enjoyed working so has managed to extend his employment and started evening study. Others plan to maybe do a degree later. Obviously being in London or a big city makes that more doable with more options open. But everyone being at Uni at age 18/19 seems to be becoming less fixed in stone. It also seems more common to change routes as well.

So - good that there is so much more opportunity and not a fixed path - but on the other hand can make the decision making all the more confusing !!

This isn't really related to our DC but have any of you seen the news today about the resignation of Drew Povey, the head teacher who was on Educating Greater Manchester.

It seems very odd that he has essentially been forced out. Are they awash with SLT talent in Lancashire that they can afford to lose someone like that?

Funny thing happened this afternoon...

DS2 got home from school and asked to have a chat with me (unusual in itself).

He has made a list of his commitments this term:
He is doing four A-levels and spends time every evening making revision notes on what he has done that day.
He plays in three orchestras and sings in a choir.
He will be volunteering twice a week helping in KS3 lessons.
He jointly runs a club at school which is one lunchtime and one after-school session per week.
Plus clarinet lessons and practising for Grade 8.

He told me he thinks he might have to cut down on the 10-12 hours a week he spends online, chatting in gaming communities and playing D&D with Americans he has never met.
😂

What I wanted to say: "You think??!!!"
What I actually said: "OK. That sounds wise."

Just to answer pannetone my DS2 is starting an HNC this week. It's a level 4 qualification, and easier to get on to than an apprenticeship for someone like my DS2 who doesn't do well in interviews. It's purely college based.

He did apply for a local civil service apprenticeship last year but they had upped it that year from a higher apprenticeship to a degree apprenticeship and that put it out of his reach. The competition was far higher. Such a shame, he missed out on the previous scheme by one year. I think it would have been ideal for him.

My aim ATM is to keep him in education for as long as possible to give him a chance to mature, but his social skills are really poor and don't look like improving. He's not anti social, just not interested in friendships at all.

That occurred to me before Ellen that full day assessments and interviews will be tough for some. Also now that degree apprenticeships are more widely known high flying dc with stellar results are competing for them which will again 'price out' dc with less advantage and who may have benefited from them

Whistl I thought the Drew Povey issue is very sad. Clearly we don't know the full story behind it but school leaders are in short supply - wonder if his brothers went too.

Yes, degree apprenticeships are probably not an easy option. It'll be much easier to get on to many degree courses.

TheThird I can only wish that my DS was as sensible!

DS is home from school and has decided that whilst maths is ok, he doesn't like having to work in general.

My advice was in two parts:

1. You had better get used to it because that is life
2. Don't go around saying that aloud. People will judge you!

What have DH and I bred?!

Interesting discussion (as always!).

Don't be put off apprenticeships as an alternative. Local companies will probably have less fierce competition than say the BBC.

Also once you get to an assessment centre they will choose whoever is best fit and that might not be people with best grades. DD was told "You scored 100% in visuospatial skills. I've not seen that before." This got her offers even though she had dropped out of A levels.

I realise that's no help to DC whose skills set wouldn't be a good fit at assessment centre but might help people who are able but hit a wall at A level or afterwards. For DD her dyslexia probably contributes to her visuospatial superpowers as well as her A level struggles (all in the past now thankfully).

Ellen that is a shame the scheme was changed. Some employers positively recruit neurodiverse people, valuing the contribution of a different way of thinking. However just coping with the demands of the workplace (not necessarily the work) can be tough.
I hope the HNC goes well.

Peggy, the local civil service employer is exactly one of those which is supposed to value the neuro-diverse. My ExH used to work there and it's been suggested that it's workforce contributes to the higher than average number of DC with ASD locally.

In retrospect, it may have been too early to look for a job for DS2.

whistl was that your DS2 by any chance?

EllenJane no, it was DS1!

DS2 is currently mid-argument with me (he has gone upstairs to get something, but will be back in a second). I want him to do his (Year 10, GCSE) homework properly whereas he is saying that properly equates to 5 mins on the sofa, working from memory and without reference to any text book or revision guide.
It's like deja vu. DS1 was exactly like this two years ago, and came to regret it when it meant he had more work to do in year 11.
I need !

Ooo, whistl! Well, I can agree with him. Maths is alright, but working is no fun.

Well at the 11th hour DS has decided to go for a review after all, the deadline is tomorrow.........

Thanks EllenJane - that’s a shame about your local civil service apprenticeship. I’ve just been looking at ‘fast track’ civil service apprenticeships- actually they are the only sort I’ve found by googling so far. For some ‘streams’ you only need GCSES, for others a couple of related A levels grade D or above. Well, that’s the stated minimum - I suspect it’s quite competitive.

Apparently as DS has a disability he would get a guaranteed interview - and he could opt not to do the verbal and numerical online tests. BUT he’d still have to do the ‘situational judgement’ test - which having looked at the practice questions would be challenging for an applicant with ASD. He’d also need to rate himself against ‘competency standards’ - I reckon DS would be rather too honest!

If he could get in, the civil service does look like a good employer for the neuro-diverse. Flexible working would be ideal for DS2. Fast track seems to involve some study but not as much as a degree.

DS’s review for his one-mark-off-a-9 geography result went in today BlueBelle - we’re getting the lowest marked paper of the 3 reviewed.