New Year 12 starters parent support thread (snappy title eh?)

[OhYouBadBadKitten]

here we are.

I'm a bit worried DDs school aren't talking unis should they?
DD is knackered from her 10 mile walk and disco

Thanks Needastrongone the school is offering lots of pastoral support but DS1 is reluctant to accept it. He had nearly 3 years of appointments, doctors and adjustments at school and now he just wants to be 'normal' and like everyone else. Fortunately the school is aware of this and is trying to support him as much as possible while also giving him a sixth form experience that's as close as possible to his peers. They have been pretty great throughout, actually.

I can remember when mostly only students in private schools had a 'year out' gap year and took the Oxbridge exams after tutoring in their 'seventh term' at sixth form giving them an advantage over state school pupils. I wonder if that will still be allowed?

But the current tests are very different from the exams of the 80s and before. The current tests do not directly exam the material taught at A level, but look for higher level understanding and thinking. So tutoring for the tests has significantly less effect than it would have done in the old days.

Some students do apply to Oxbridge after finishing A levels, particularly when they did better than expected. But they are not at an advantage, as they are expected to be at a higher level than applicants from year 13.

There is a concern that any form of pre-tests is a barrier for kids from disadvantaged backgrounds and I personally am not really in favour of pre-tests. But the results of the pre-tests are certainly looked at in context, so students from top private schools would be expected to perform quite a bit better than those from disadvantaged backgrounds to get through to interview stage.

BTW STEP of course does test maths A level content, but I am not including this in the "pre-test before interview" category.

User, are the tests anything like the Maths Challenge that runs through high school at various levels according to age? I'm encouraged to see that the DC from disadvantaged backgrounds are given 'leeway', or at least it is recognised they may be unable to perform at a similar level to privately educated students. DS is not at all disadvantaged, but he's is in a state school.

TheSecond I can completely understand him wanting to be normal. It's such a bloody tricky age anyway, never mind throwing further difficulties into the mix. It's great the school are being supportive in a pastoral way. Do you envisage this settling down? Does your DS want to change subjects?

dd is looking forward to breaking up for half term - only 2 days to go but the tutors are setting holiday assignments which I guess is standard for A levels.
Last year we were bombarded with info from the school about GCSEs and have had very little parents info from the college so far. Partly because they are all new and only just getting to the stage where there is meaningful information to pass onto parents.
Ellen you are not alone as dd isn't considering uni either.
I think the college do have an "Advanced" programme for students considering the "top" unis including Oxbridge, but this is only for a limited number of students i..e those with top GCSE grades whose parents didn't go to uni which isn't where we are as a family.

fantasy I wouldn't worry about not hearing anything about uni. I think there are some schemes for Y12s in state schools to encourage more to consider "top" unis (Wider participation) but these schemes aren't really aimed at independent school pupils (or indeed pupils with graduate parents).
But the current tests are very different from the exams of the 80s and before. The current tests do not directly exam the material taught at A level, but look for higher level understanding and thinking. So tutoring for the tests has significantly less effect than it would have done in the old days.
user I did take a Cambridge entry test in the early 1980s for Natural sciences (in what would now be Autumn term Y13) and it definitely wasn't anything like A levels (it was far more applied and abstract) so perhaps your experience was for a different subject. I wasn't offered a place and ended up at another uni instead.

I didn't personally take Oxbridge entry exams in the 1980s - still in primary school! - but there was certainly considerable preparation for the old exams provided by some schools. The scores were strongly dependent on school type, much more so than in the current tests. Indeed Cambridge's new tests are in their first year, so nobody really knows what to expect beyond the available sample tests.

are the tests anything like the Maths Challenge that runs through high school at various levels according to age?

The tests are in almost all subjects, and vary considerably by subject. Sample papers for the new Cambridge ones are available on the Cambridge websites. The Oxford ones have been around for a long time, so there's quite a lot of past material available.

The MAT and STEP maths papers are harder questions on Maths A level material. It's hard to compare them directly to Maths Challenges, as the latter are on lower level material, but like Maths Challenges they involve multi-step questions where the solution method is not as obvious as it would be in a regular A level paper.

Thanks, I'll have a look at the website and see. He's always done very well in the MC, but that's the limit of further tests/exams. Apart from doing FM A Level.

DS and his peer group, are really focusing in on Uni's Fantasy, rather than the school at this stage. They are all of the same capability, so hang around in an intellectual group discussing Maths and Physics and the like . But there's a lot of talk about Uni's and grades between them.

that's not quite right User. Maths challenge questions are multi quick answer questions, The follow on olympiads range from moderate for the younger ones to fiercely hard for bmo2 using lemmas and theorems that you wouldn't encounter in school at all.

Nope not talk of unis here or grades, is it really necessary to be talking about them now when they've just embarked on their alevel journeys, adding stress before there needs to be stress

I think it depends on the person Fantasy. DS doesn't feel that much pressure around exams. He also needs a focus or a goal to aim for the push him to do his best. He enjoys being with a peer group that are the same. He did really well at GCSE but cruised in the subjects that didn't matter to him.

DD in Y11 is entirely different, and so her approach will be I suspect.

Both know I care more that they are happy and give no shit (!!) if they decide not to go to Uni.

But if I can help DS, I will If that is what he wants.

Maths challenge questions are multi quick answer questions

This is not true of all of them - maths challenges run by universities are much more in line with the STEP/MAT style. I agree that the early stage UKMT are indeed quick answer questions, though, so if that is all the student has ever seen, it would be good to google maths challenges from universities, look up Olympiad questions etc.

Olympiad questions are doable without knowledge of lemmas and theorems not taught in schools, but they are obviously easier with more subject knowledge. STEP questions are helped far less by having more subject knowledge.

have you tried bmo2 geometry without that knowledge?

needastrongones ds has been doing the ukmt challenges.

Fantasy, yes I think it is about time to start introducing exploring uni options in a gentle way. In the summer term visits to unis start and by this time next year oxbridge candidates will need to have their applications in.

new thread all ready and waiting for us.

I think at this stage in Y12, there are several positions our dcs are in:

• some (like my dd) have decided that they definitely don't want to go to uni. I have no idea what the timetable is like for this group of dcs, so any advice would be welcome.
• others have decided that they would like to go to uni but are not sure what subject they would like to study or what type of uni they would like to go to.
• there are also those that have a clear idea even at this early stage what they would like to do next. for many in this group having a clear idea about the way forward may help them stay focused.

What i'm hoping for this year, is that whatever group our dcs are in (there may be others), we will still be able to support each other so that we can help and support our dcs.

the voice of calm and reason catslife :) well said.

Thanks Kitten, for the Maths information. I've posted on the new thread, but just rounding up the talk on here about this subject.

Great post Catslife, I don't know the answer to your question though I am afraid.

Great post catslife

DS1 is still having trouble deciding which subjects to study for A-level, let alone what to study at university (if he even wants to go).

If we can get him past half term, he'll be in this category:

others have decided that they would like to go to uni but are not sure what subject they would like to study or what type of uni they would like to go to.

Thanks everyone.
Hope this is the post to finish off the thread!

Off to join new thread...