My sisters children are going to be removed

[Namechange543]

Name changed for this but hoping someone can offer some advice.

My sisters children are going to be removed, there is a court hearing on Tuesday to decide this but with the overwhelming evidence against her and the fact they’ve been on a child protection plan for so long with her making no positive steps it’s only going to go one way.

The social worker tells me once the judge has made a decision they will speak to family about placements for them. I really want to help but the problem is she has 3 children and I already have 2 of my own so I can’t take them all. I have a 4 bed house so couldn’t fit them even if I could cope with 5 children.

Will they want them to stay together or will they split them to keep them with family? And if they do split them how on earth do you decide which 1 you take?

It’s such a nightmare. My mum could take 1 and I could take 1 but then do we leave the 1 not chosen to go into foster care. How damaging would that be! I’ve cried so much this week with the guilt that I can’t help them all.

[Quarantimespringclean]

Since it looks like they can’t all be taken in by family I think it’s better to let them all go into care. To take only one or two into your family homes and let another one go into care would eventually cause a massive rift between them. They have been through enough without doing that to them.

Since you can’t be a foster parent to them all you can do from now Is be the best possible aunt you can be. Visit them, support them, stay in touch, let them know they are loved.

[Scrumpyjacks]

Fucking hell reading the updates you are doing something Incredible by even offering to take 1!!! Like I said, you need to do what's best for you and your family. Please don't listen to those who are saying you have the space, take them all... It's no where near as easy as that.

[GrumpyHoonMain]

Honestly in this situation I would make room for her kids. Put yours together and split the remaining 3 between 2 rooms.

[Beautiful3]

Now I've read your updates, you cannot possibly take them in. They are violent and showing signs of sexual behaviour, one has stabbed someone. If you take them in, your poor children will suffer. Your children should come first, you should not allow that to happen. In that kind of situation the judge would not want the children to be in any contact with the parent, so doubt very much they'd allow it anyway.

[RandomMess]

Could you take the youngest and him have some weekend breaks with your Mum as that would provide your DC with regular respite? Would your Mum break all contact with your sister?

[J6J6]

Call Family Rights Group - free legal advice line on Monday - 0808 801 0366
They are specialists in care proceedings and family stepping in to care for children in their family in short or long term. Tell your sister to ask for a family group conference to be organised by the social worker

[Jannt86]

I think there's a lot of what ifs and unknowns in this. I really think the 3 kids need to stay together and I think unless there's any real reasons why they shouldn't stay together then ss will see it that way as well. You don't have to go into details of why they've been removed but the first thing I think you need to ask is 'how likely is it that these children will be returned to their mum eventually?' Have ss said whether the aim is a long-term placement or even adoption or whether they're hoping that with interventions will allow return to mum. If the concerns are severe enough that they're looking at LT placement then never say never but I would say that the likelihood of them returning to mum is quite low. Not to be derogatory towards your sister but being realistic if she hasn't found a way of providing for them by this point she's unlikely ever to. The second thing you have to ask is 'how bad are you going to feel if you're not able to be a part of these children's lives' I know that might seem a bit of an emotionally manipulative and unfair question but the reality is that you will probably be allowed very minimal contact with them if they go into care and if they're ever adopted then their adoptive parents will have basically no obligation to facilitate any F2F contact with any of the family for the rest of their childhood. By no means are you obliged to step up for your sister when these children are ultimately her responsibility but you need to know that this will be the reality if someone in their their biological family can't provide for them. Their biological roots would be basically severed and don't underestimate how traumatic this in itself will be for them even if best case scenario they manage to be matched with a loving permanent family. If you can find a way to keep them in the family then this would be hugely positive for these children. The difference it would make to their sense of wellbeing and belonging. You do also need to bare in mind that even if you decide to take them on then it would still be up to ss to assess you as their best match and approve you. I don't think they would be too bothered about the bedroom arrangement though and potentially you may even be able to receive some sort of financial assistance to extend your house for example. These are things you'd have to look into though if you decided to proceed. Personally I would just be asking yourself if you can and want to provide for these children. Individual bedrooms would be ideal but I all honesty it is probably the bottom of a long list of what these children are going to need to become well adjusted and healthy adults. Good luck. Keep us posted xx

[Schoolchoicesucks]

If your mother is in contact with your sister, doesn't have a bedroom and is in her 60's, she may not be the ideal carer for an aggressive 5 year old.

It's great that you are trying to find ways to make this work, but it doesn't sound as though you are in a position to take all 3 long term. The impact on your dc would be considerable. Maintaining an "aunt" relationship may be the best thing that you can do for them - seeing them (individually?) for days out.

[FizzyGreenWater]

OP your update changes absolutely everything and completely invalidates all the advice before it.

I would think that the best option for all three of these children would be to go into specialised foster care, all separately. Definitely none with your mother given the situation with your sister.

I do not think either your or your mum would be a suitable placement for the 9 or 10 year old. I can't imagine you being able to do more than the bare amount of coping with them while they go forward into, almost certainly, a teenagerhood along the lines of what they've learned so far. I would think you being 'family' would be quite possibly actively detrimental in some ways- would they listen to you? Would they within a year or two be able to reinstate contact with their mum, and end up bringing her back into your life?

The five year old is a very different prospect and given the distance you might be suitable. It sounds as if you might be able to turn this child's life around - but ONLY if separated from both older siblings and ONLY if you were supported with specialist educational and counselling help. And then, you are back in the position of taking one but not the others which is awhole can of worms.

FGS don't take two. That five year old will have no chance without a fresh start in an entirely new family group.

What a mess.

[Namechange543]

Sorry that I’m ranting. I’m just so heartbroken and so angry that it’s ended like this. I feel utterly helpless and I want to help my nephews so badly. We do have a good relationship, I see them every week and my mum is the go between as my sister and I don’t speak due to this. I’ve reported her to social services multiple times. They are better behaved when with me, probably because I’m not abusing them, but that may not last when it’s permanent and they have to face and work through their past trauma.

[CuppaZa]

Op just seen your updates and I am honestly sickened to my stomach by what has been going on. Those poor, poor children. I can see why they may need to be separated under these circumstances. I can’t even imagine a world where a mother would create this situation. Good luck with everything

[wishingforapositiveyear]

This such a difficult situation for you all. There is no right answer. If the 5 year old is less damaged maybe he could have a fresh start with a foster family and frequent contact with you? The other 2 sound too damaged to manage and will end up having placements breakdowns and residentials etc. No option is going to feel ok I imagine given the risk social services won't place them together due to risks towards each other.

[MrsNoah2020]

You've a 4 bed house ffs. Take them all!

Oh fuck off. Have you one tiny clue how difficult it is looking after one child who has been traumatised by abuse, let alone three, let alone when you already have two kids of your own?

If it's so easy @SoloMummy, why aren't you fostering three siblings? Plenty of need out there - social services would bite your arm off.

OP, please do not be guilted into taking your Dsis' kids. I would bet you millions that posters on here telling to take them have never fostered traumatised children. I am afraid that the harsh reality is that you will probably ruin life for you and your own family if you do. Instead, talk to SS about how you and your DM can be involved with the kids in other ways, maintaining family ties.

[AIMD]

@Schoolchoicesucks

If your mother is in contact with your sister, doesn't have a bedroom and is in her 60's, she may not be the ideal carer for an aggressive 5 year old.

It's great that you are trying to find ways to make this work, but it doesn't sound as though you are in a position to take all 3 long term. The impact on your dc would be considerable. Maintaining an "aunt" relationship may be the best thing that you can do for them - seeing them (individually?) for days out.

This is actually a good suggestion. I wonder if you could offer to have regular contact and maybe offer respite care for the carer/s that eventually have them?

[ShouldWeChangeTheBulb]

I think take the youngest you could be the full time home and your mum could give you rest-bite. The two oldest should go into care where they gave a better chance of getting the help they need.

[Herefortipsx]

Very difficult. I couldn't bare the thought of loosing my niece and nephew so would find a way to squash them in. Life's too short and all that. But if you really can't and your mum can't it's not your fault. Your kids must come first. But it depends if your mum is going to manage two of them. At least then you can both meet up regular and over time they will be able to have sleepovers. It's really something you and your mum need to discuss. If you both feel it's too expensive. Too complex. Not enough space. Then it won't be best for the kids anway and care would be better for them. It's so so so sad. But you sound like you love them dearly. So sorry you are in this position xx

[FizzyGreenWater]

It's good that you have a good bond. However it makes it harder if you were to have the 5 year old but not the others as they will probably feel that hugely... I don't know.

[AuditAngel]

When i was a child (one of 4) my mum was asked if she could take in my cousins. I only recently found out the reason, and it isn’t relevant to disclose here, but already having 4 children in a 3 bedroom house she only felt able to take 1 of my cousins.

It was only short term.

Initially I was going to beg You to take them all, to squash them in, in a way my mum wasn’t able to do.

But after reading your update I wanted to say what a tragic situation. If you feel able, take one of the children, but consider the impact on your own children. Please don’t beat yourself up for not being able to fix the failures of the social services

[LIZS]

Oh goodness , poor children. Honestly I think they need specialist individual support, probably in foster homes with no other children. It may be that in time and away from others the 5 yo can remain with family but I suspect it would be very challenging to take on any/all. Do not allow ss to pressure you or your dm to step in if you have doubts. Are there fathers on the scene?

[Thinkingg]

I'm sorry OP, what a horrendous situation. Please don't feel pressurised or judged by posters pushing you to take on more than you can handle. Can you seek out specialist advice?

[phoenixearthworm]

@ExhaustedBeyondBelief

How the hell have the poor children been allowed to get in that state?!?!?

Because social services are underfunded, because there is a shortage of experienced foster carers and residential accommodation for children who need to be in care, because mental health services for children have been decimated and because schemes like sure start which used to support parents have gone. There is, sadly, a plethora of reasons why this awful situation has happened. When I worked in social work over 20 years ago there were horrendous situations for children needing foster care then and it's certainly worse now

[phoenixearthworm]

^ When I first worked in social services is what I meant to say.

[Ohhgreat]

I think you are amazing for even considering fostering them. I agree - I would take the youngest, as you have to consider the effect on your teenagers too.

[Namechange543]

@wishingforapositiveyear That’s my big worry as well. If I though for one second they would find a foster home, together or separately, where they would be happy and stay there permanently I would walk away and let that happen. But it won’t, they will bounce from one home to another and become more traumatised as a result. The social worker already downplays their behaviour and when they 5 year old (4 at the time) was hospitalised described it as ‘sibling rivalry’. I don’t think for one second she will be honest with a prospective foster family about how extensive their issues are. They’ve been failed by absolutely everyone, and I include myself in that.

[Pandapotato]

I’m Sorry you are going through this OP. Such an impact on everyone.
Hopefully the right thing will happen in court in terms of protecting the children.

In all honesty, I would take some time to see how the children’s needs develop after removal. It’s is very unlikely they will be placed together - due to a shortage of placements and what you have described about their behaviour. You can continue to be in their lives by offering stable and regular contact and support. It’s quite possible for you to be a part of things like their care plan reviews arc if everyone agrees. Start with that and see how the next few months pan out.

You are 100% entitled to put your kids first and taking time to think things through and see how they cope outside of the home environment before committing to anything is perfectly fine and in everyone’s best interest. Bringing up someone else’s child is a really tough thing to do (especially if they have experienced lots of trauma) and shouldn’t be entered into without very careful consideration.

Take your time op, there is so much to consider here.