My sisters children are going to be removed

[Namechange543]

Name changed for this but hoping someone can offer some advice.

My sisters children are going to be removed, there is a court hearing on Tuesday to decide this but with the overwhelming evidence against her and the fact they’ve been on a child protection plan for so long with her making no positive steps it’s only going to go one way.

The social worker tells me once the judge has made a decision they will speak to family about placements for them. I really want to help but the problem is she has 3 children and I already have 2 of my own so I can’t take them all. I have a 4 bed house so couldn’t fit them even if I could cope with 5 children.

Will they want them to stay together or will they split them to keep them with family? And if they do split them how on earth do you decide which 1 you take?

It’s such a nightmare. My mum could take 1 and I could take 1 but then do we leave the 1 not chosen to go into foster care. How damaging would that be! I’ve cried so much this week with the guilt that I can’t help them all.

[TravellingWanabee]

If you do want to try and make it work, I would be inclined for you to take the 9 and 5 year old and your mum have the 10 year old (with the inappropriate sexual behaviour) as I'm not sure I would want him near the 5 year old (depending on what the behaviour was and towards whom). That way the 2 older ones aren't together either and they may actually get on better by seeing each other less often and getting more attention each. But I am only suggesting this because your children are older and hopefully better able to understand/help. No way would I recommend this if they were younger though.

[FizzyGreenWater]

OP your mum does not sound a suitable placement, she really really doesn't.

The two older ones need specialist help.

The younger one needs to be compltely disappeared from your sister's life and you know your mum won't do this.

[Scrumpyjacks]

I cannot tell you how similar this is to my own experience op. I've reported my sil to social services a number of times, I've actually lost count of how many. Unfortunately, her children are still with her and suffering every day. We hope ss will remove them soon. It's a case of when, not if.
I'm so sorry you're going through this. Just remember how valuable a good aunt relationship is and this may be better for you long term than to take any of them. There is no shame in that.

[bowchicawowwow]

I'm really sorry but I would put my own children's needs first in this situation.

[FizzyGreenWater]

OP are you in a position to make a complaint about the social worker assigned to them and start kicking up a stink about this?

[blue25]

Sadly the children will be emotionally damaged and will display highly challenging behaviour. It’s not about whether the house is big enough. The impact they will have on you and your own children will be huge.

[Deadringer]

A lot of clueless people on this thread. I foster 2 children, (not related to each other) and they both have several siblings, all living in different families. They have complex needs, and they are best addressed by being separated. Some of them started out together but it didn't work out for various reasons. They do see each other regularly. Op do what's best for you and your family, and as i said earlier, concentrate on being the best aunt that you can be. Good luck.

[TARSCOUT]

Oh OP this is horrific.

I probably shouldn't know or post however it may help. A colleague adopted a 5 year old last year. There were 3 siblings and all adopted separately. It was felt that the only way forward for them to have any sort of life was for them to be independent of each other. I don't know many details however I feel it may have been a similar situation to yours.

The siblings have regular contact with each other although this has been difficult. My colleagues child is beginning to settle now and is a lovely child.

It may be fostering any or all of them won't be for the best. I wish you all well.

[WhySoSexist]

@AIMD I read OP's update and it doesn't change what I said. Social services are highly unlikely to allow OP to take custody of one child, her mother to take custody of another and a stranger to take custody of another. Social services want to keep children together as much as possible even if they fight. These children are still very young and with the correct help their behaviour could u-turn in a matter of months. Social services aren't going to permanently separate children from the family that they know just because it's a bit easier or avoids a short-term problem.

[MojoJojo71]

It’s about so much more than ‘having room’ and i don’t think you should feel that you MUST take them in. You need to think about the impact on you, your partner and your own children as well as these 3 poor kids. I genuinely don’t think I would be prepared to take them on full time but I would make sure I continued to spend regular time with them and remained a positive influence in their lives which I think will still make a huge difference to their lives.

[LochJessMonster]

I don’t think you or your mum should take them. Your mum is not going to cope with the behavioural problems, plus is she going to be able to say no when your sister asks to see them or take them out for the day?

Let them go to foster homes who are prepared for their issues and will have the support to help them.

[Jannt86]

Sorry I've just seen the updates and agree that this totally changes everything. Heartbreakingly I think it's likely that these children are going to be separated Do what you can and remain collaborative with ss but I think you need to really think hard about what the reality of taking any of these children on is. Read about trauma and attachment and think about the impact it will have on your own kid. I think a child who is showing sexualised tendencies when I have my own young children would be a huge no for me. Sorry x

[Namechange543]

@phoenixearthworm Are you a social worker? If so do you mind if I private message you one of the reports from school from last year? Obviously with personal information removed. I think they should have been removed them. The social worker called it sibling rivalry. I would like a second opinion on whether the social worker should have escalated this.

[HazelBite]

Having had experience (can't explain why , too outing) of traumatised DC's ie very aggressive inappropriate sexualised behaviour, they need so much individual input and should really be in specialised foster care.
My suggestion (for what its worth) is for the two older dcs to be fostered separately and the five year old to be possibly cared for by the OP should she feel able to.
The Op's older two DC's would provide good role models/influence on a child that age.
I fear for the futures of the older two with the best will in the world their previous trauma and experience is something that will be very difficult for anyone to deal with.

[Herefortipsx]

Hi read some more of your answers. It's just sad all around. If the youngest could come to you perhaps the older two could do with new starts with experienced foster parents. They often take children in with difficult histories. The 5 year old perhaps still has time to recover with plenty of support and a positive experience from now on with school and affection.

[notapizzaeater]

You see the kids each week, have any of them spent any decent amount of time with you ?

Whatever you decide you need to make sure you have loads and loads of support from SS.

[TeenPlusTwenties]

9 & 10 year olds who have had years of poor parenting are imo highly unlikely to be turned around in a few months. Ongoing support for years is more realistic. They are old in terms of going into care.

[Namechange543]

@WhySoSexist I don’t think you understand the level that these children ‘fight’. One was in hospital as a result of their injuries. They use weapons, knifes, have tried to strange each other. The 5 and 9 year could be together at an absolute push but never unsupervised. The 10 year old needs to be away from the others. The school moved him to another school as they couldn’t keep the 9 year old safe from him.

[MotherofKitties]

OP, you sound like a kind and caring woman and this is an impossible situation in which you clearly want to help, but from your updates it sounds like you would be putting your own children at risk by taking your sisters children in.

You said one was violent and had stabbed another child and another has engaged in inappropriate sexual behaviour. As you have a daughter, despite being a few years older than them, I suspect social services may have concerns about you taking any of the children on that basis. And you're right regarding room sharing; your son and daughter can't share a room based on their ages, and it sounds like taking in your sisters children would be very traumatic for your family.

As I said I realise this is an impossible position and you don't want to see them go into care, but realistically I think you have to put the safety of your own children first. I genuinely hope something is worked out in the kids best interest

[Anniemabel]

I can see why you can’t take all three. It isn’t a case of practicalities around room sharing although that’s clearly a factor. It sounds like each child needs an awful lot of support and it’s understandable not to be able to give them that in the circumstances you describe. Could you and your mum take the 9 and 10 year olds and then place the younger one for adoption. At age 5 he probably still has a chance at adoption whereas the older two probably don’t.

Or alternatively, could your mum take one of the older ones and you take the other two and have them share a room? It won’t be forever as presumably your 16 year old will move out in the next 2 or 3 years and then the 5 year old would have their own room by age 9.

[SisterAgatha]

I grew up in an abusive household and to save my siblings kids from being in care, I think I’d take two and your mum one, and if they can’t share a room, I’d move to the living room. Until a more permanent solution can be found.

You’d need a new car to fit them all in, it would be massively hard I totally understand. My cousin has 7 children in a 4 bed. I feel for you, it must be so hard.

[endlessginandtonic]

OP as another social worker I would strongly advise against sending information to people met through the internet.
Focus on getting the current situation resolved regardless of how cross you are about previous ones.(you can pick this back up after the current situation is resolved if you want to)
It isn't unusual for kids with higher needs to be separated and it sounds as though this might well be the case here.
I would caution against taking in any of the dc unless you are able to undertake training around therapeutic parenting and similar. Don't underestimate the chaos that traumatized dc bring in their wake.
FC or even an adopter for the youngest dc who are trained and able to focus on them may be the best way forward.
SS may push for a dump and run using family members ( equally they may not areas vary a lot) but caring for traumatized dc is very difficult so go in with your eyes open.

[IKEA888]

oh goodness.
As you say why didn't they remove them earlier.
So sad for all involved.
There will be no winners here and no right or wrong answer. .
It would be ideal if you could speak to someone professional who can help.

[Whattodotho]

I grew up in care they never tried to keep me together with my sister or brother my sister was very close in age with me aswell.

[SchadenfreudePersonified]

This is such a heartbreaking thread - not only regarding OP's nephews, but to realise that up and down the country there are children suffering like this and being failed by almost everyone around them - and that the ones who do genuinely try to help are ignored or their fears minimised.

I had a bloody awful childhood - I wouldn't wish it on a dog, but it was NOTHING compared to what these poor boys are suffering.