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Forces sweethearts

If you have a family member in the Royal Navy, RAF or army, find support from other Mumsnetters here.

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Original poster

CEA abuse thoughts

36 replies

PaddlingMadly · 16/04/2013 09:49

Thoughts please? Living in SFA and several of us quietly seething due to a quarter nearby being used by family claiming CEA, but blatantly not living there. We don't know the details (nobody there to ask) so yes the busybodies could be wrong, but if suspicions are correct the worry is that every case like this give more ammunition for getting rid of CEA altogether, and some of us really need it. But if we do say something it'll disrupt innocent kids' education. Stay out of it?

OP posts:

goinggetstough · 16/04/2013 10:25

The anonymous fraud helpline is 0800 161 3665.
Please report your suspicions, don't seethe in silence. You need to know the name/rank of the person (that is vital). They will ask for the school names, where the person works etc. Just give them what information you have and they can find out the rest if you don't know it.
CEA would not be withdrawn until the case is proven.
I have PMed you too.

Original poster

PaddlingMadly · 16/04/2013 10:31

Thanks goinggetstough, didn't know about this. It's a hard one.

OP posts:

LtEveDallas · 16/04/2013 10:32

How do you know that the family is claiming CEA?

Is one of the 'busybodies' RAO staff?

Original poster

PaddlingMadly · 16/04/2013 10:59

Next door came round as they moved in to say hi, subject of children boarding came out then but you're right, don't know if they're paying themselves or claiming CEA. No, no RAO staff involved far as I know.

OP posts:

LtEveDallas · 16/04/2013 14:09

So a complete non issue and nothing like your original post "due to a quarter nearby being used by family claiming CEA"

...and THAT is why Military wives have got such a bad reputation. Yeah, thanks for that.

goinggetstough · 16/04/2013 14:48

LTEve I read it as family "moved in" and then have never been seen again. So therefore spouse not accompanying military person living in the quarter and with DCs at boarding school. So the OP has good reason to be suspicious. The family though may have a good reason for being apart/have been given permission and still be entitled to CEA but maybe not and that would then be fraud. The final alternative would be that they are paying all the boarding school fees themselves, possible, but rather unlikely on military pay.

I know of a family a few years ago who "pretended' to move in to a quarter and then the wife moved back to their own house for her job and to be near the DC's boarding school. They were caught and had to pay back the CEA. So it does happen. If this is similiar to the OP's situation then it is not a non issue IMO.

OP could you clarify.

LtEveDallas · 16/04/2013 16:39

So the OP has good reason to be suspicious

I don't agree. OP doesn't KNOW if the family is claiming CSA - and lots don't.

OP is assuming and gossiping. People are "seething" about this family and talking about them behind their backs - When they don't even know the FACTS.

(Oh, and I'm on a military wage and could easily pay for my DD to board, not all Boarding School fees are astronomical)

Original poster

PaddlingMadly · 16/04/2013 16:51

goingetstough has explained it clearly and if you re-read you'll see we don't know which is why we're wondering... LtEve, have you something to hide??

OP posts:

LtEveDallas · 16/04/2013 17:06

No, and that is EXACTLY what I am talking about. Bitchiness and passive aggressive bollocks like that. It makes me sick.

Having had to deal with 2 marriage break-ups over Easter where both wives had left their soldier husbands because of the nastiness of the patch, and the back stabbing and gossip of women with nothing better to do with their time, you should be ashamed of yourself. It's patches like yours that give the rest the bad name and stop successful military marriages in their tracks.

You say you are worried about disrupting innocent kids education? Well those innocent kids will suffer more if their parents split up because you are gossiping.

Wondering is fine, but seething and gossiping with your friends when you don't even know if the family is claiming or not? Not fine.

Original poster

PaddlingMadly · 16/04/2013 17:15

Lt Eve, I'm sorry you've had to deal with marriage break ups but I can assure you there has never been a single bitchy incident here.

Please bear in mind that wondering on an open forum whether it's ok for military personnel to defraud tax payers out of tens of thousands of pounds doesn't mean I'm splitting up marriages.

Clearly you're upset and this has touched a nerve; I'm sorry about that. I hope people you're dealing with are getting over it and the nastiness on your patch calms down soon. Best wishes for the future.

OP posts:

LtEveDallas · 16/04/2013 17:46

Please bear in mind that wondering on an open forum whether it's ok for military personnel to defraud tax payers out of tens of thousands of pounds doesn't mean I'm splitting up marriages

No you weren't, you were assuming your new neighbours, people you have only met when they 'popped in when the moved in' were defrauding the MOD (we are all tax payers, so you don't need to quantify that to justify yourself) and gossiping about it with your mates. To the point that you are 'seething' about it when you don't actually know if it is even happening.

It's not just 'my' patch, it's patches across the forces where the women form cliques and outsiders are gossiped about. Check out the Forces Sweethearts board here on MN and see how many military wives refuse to live on the patch because of their reputation. It's bad for morale and bad for the Services.

Gossipmonster · 17/04/2013 15:04

This is the "Forces Sweethearts" board

loubielou31 · 24/04/2013 23:34

So how does one find out if there are legitimate reasons for the SFA to be unoccupied whilst in receipt of CEA?

Are you suggesting that this suspected fraud should just be ignored for fear of being accused of bitching? Would you be giving the same advice if it was a different crime being suspected?

It's a shame LtEveDallas that you have such a low opinion of wives and patches because in my experience when one of us is in need there is nothing like the support, help and kindness offered by military wives.

loubielou31 · 24/04/2013 23:43

In fact it's much more likely that you making a song and dance about the bitchiness of married patches is what gives them such a bad reputation.

Paddling I can completely understand why other wives would be annoyed about a quarter being taken and then not occupied. Aside from the CEA issue it's a quarter that is being taken needlessly. Round here there simply isn't enough housing and families face a lot of uncertainty about when or even if they will be allocated somewhere to live. The idea that one is "going to waste" would madden me beyond belief.

LtEveDallas · 25/04/2013 05:28

^So how does one find out if there are legitimate reasons for the SFA to be unoccupied whilst in receipt of CEA?

OP admitted she didn't actually know if CEA was being claimed or not - which is what made it nothing more than gossip.

There is a shortage of SFA everywhere, that's why local landlords do a rip roaring trade in SSFA. A quarter will always be found, there is no 'if' about it.

loubielou31 · 25/04/2013 13:29

^ You didn't answer my question! How do you find out if there is a legitimate reason for the house not being lived in?

I would think it likely that the family is claiming CEA why else would a family pay rent on a married quarter that they then don't use? (I have to admit I am looking forward to your list of reasons why a family might do this)

What do you actually suggest the op does bearing in mind her suspicion that fraud is being committed?

And yes you will eventually be allocated somewhere to live but if you are also trying to find school places in an area where they too are in very limited supply any delay adds extra stress and worry. I repeat that I would be annoyed by this.

LtEveDallas · 25/04/2013 13:45

That isn't the question you or the OP asked LoubieLou - you said unoccupied whilst in receipt of CEA and the OP said being used by family claiming CEA

The OP doesn't know if CEA is being claimed - she doesn't know the householder and none of the gossipers work within the RAO - although if they did and were gossiping I would be even more disgusted with them.

On my patch alone I have 3 Officers and 2 Warrant Officers who are essentially single householders. In all cases they are granted SFA by virtue of their appointment. 2 of the officers and one of the WOs are married, but their wives have not joined them in station. One of the officers lives opposite me, he is never home before 2100, and is at his desk by 0700. he also goes 'home' every weekend. His SFA looks completely unoccupied.

I also have a soldier who is a single father and entitled to SFA. He recently deployed and was able to get his son into Boarding School (that he paid for himself) whilst he was deployed, rather than his son go and live with family for the period. he was allowed to keep his SFA during the period as it had been adapted for his sons special needs. That SFA was completely empty for over 6 months.

However, none of this is your business, and the bitchy, PA comments provided by both you and the OP rather prove my point about the patch.

Callofthefishwife · 25/04/2013 21:38

There is a whole list of legitimate reasons why the SFA may be "vacant".

It may be a temporary arrangement due to a whole host of possible circumstances.

However, if you believe otherwise you can report it. Investigations will discover whats what but you wont be informed, no matter what the outcome.

loubielou31 · 25/04/2013 22:34

Thank you Callofthefishwife that is I think the answer the OP needed.

LtEveDallas you just sound as if you have an axe to grind and assume that all wives are nasty harridans. It must be a very unhappy world that you live in because I can genuinely say that the vast majority of wives on the patches I've known have been lovely. Just like the vast majority of soldiers I've known have not been arseholes.

LtEveDallas · 25/04/2013 22:45

No axe LoubiLou, and not really sure what you are hinting at there? What 'axe' could i possibly have here? Just don't like assumptions being made, wives 'seething' without knowing the truth of a matter, gossiping and talking behind others backs. It is bad for unit cohesiveness and bad for morale. It impacts on the Service Person and their family.

Why wouldn't the OP simply ask the person she is talking about. How hard would that be? Why not be upfront?

I haven't called anyone a 'nasty harridan', please don't put words in my mouth. It is uncalled for.

loubielou31 · 25/04/2013 23:07

She would have to see the person to ask them...I think you jumped very quickly to think the worst about the OP and then from that jumped to

"and THAT is why Military wives have got such a bad reputation. Yeah, thanks for that."

I think you must have met a completely different cross section of military wives to me... or that you are very quick to think badly of people and emphasise the negative points. Which really only upsets you.

Gossip is part of all human life and especially when you live in such small and closed communities, you just have to deal with it. Complaining about the bitchiness does not make it go away it just reinforces a negative image. We had a little phrase it was "Wivesnet, least secure, most accurate!"

landofsoapandglory · 25/04/2013 23:18

I don't think LtEve sounds like she has an axe to grind at all. IMO she has a very accurate view of certain areas of MQ patches. Some wives will see things that they think are there, jump to conclusions and start tittle-tattling about it, and the (usually totally unfounded and untrue) gossip spreads like wildfire and causes a lot of hurt to those involved. Believe me, I know because I have been on the end of it.

The OP should poke her nose out unless she has complete factual evidence to back up her claims!

hf128219 · 25/04/2013 23:51

It's going to be great when they start metering the water and electric to back up the occupancy of quarters. That will really catch a lot of people out.

LtEveDallas · 26/04/2013 09:11

Believe me, I know because I have been on the end of it

That's rotten Land, I'm sorry about that. I get it to a point, because I am the SP and DH is the spouse, so of course I am shagging all their husbands...but thankfully most of the people I work with are decent and sensible. DH is glad that doesn't have to have anything to do with them.

I hate the reputation of the patch, and certainly don't agree that 'gossip is part of all human life'. Unless I've just got very strange friends, we don't see the need to gossip!

hf, anything that stops fraud AND gossip is a good thing in my eyes!

1980chick · 06/05/2013 08:59

If anyone genuinely does suspect CEA abuse, just report it. Peer regulation discourages the cheating thieves. If you are fully entitled, you have nothing to fear!

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