Farmed salmon, Waitrose, sophable and her dh

[Heathcliffscathy]

I don't know how many of you were following the live webchat yesterday. Mrsophable has been following with increasing distress the catastrophe that is unfolding (ever faster) in our oceans since I've known him (12 years now).

The issue of farmed salmon is one of a number of areas that he has been concerned about for years. I've been listening to this for a long time.

So when he couldn't make the webchat yesterday due to work, I rolled my sleeves up and tried my best to ask the questions and make the points that I felt he would have specifically with regard to farmed salmon (as that is the one that I have most concern about because of ds and therefore know the most about).

I felt a bit dissatisfied with the response from Quentin the Waitrose chief fish buyer, whilst acknowledging that credit is due to Waitrose for at least engaging with this crucial debate.

I'd really appreciate you all reading the post the MrSophable took the trouble to write late last night:

Cies- on spanish fish: with the greatest respect to spanish fish retailers (and on a recent holiday in mallorca i admit i was awestruck by the variety and price of wild fish available) Spanish fishermen and the unregulated spanish fish market-place is a big part of the over fishing crisis. Spanish fishermen (and by that i should clarify that i don't mean weather beaten and engaging old men with characterful faces , salt encrusted clothes and a fag end clamped between their teeth). i mean millionaires, driving Porsche's , supported by vast EU susbsidies who own enormous fishing vessels....now that europe's seas are largely fished out they have exported their fish slaying over capacity: they buy up permits to fish off poor african nations where they are hoovering up the last dwindling reserves of hake, anchovies and other species in what are by and large entirely unregulated fisheries.
'Black fish' (ie fish that exceeds the already too large quotas set by the EU landed illegally ) finds a ready market in spain .

He doesn't catch salmon although my parents do live on a salmon river, but he line catches huss, pollock, mackerel, sea bass, plaice, squid, very occasionally he has cod, he had a glut of dover sole of the winter, red mullet, grey mullet, his wife sells it along with lobster and crab and it is pot luck what they have, but it is always fresh and I know where it comes from.

Good luck in Scotland, don't let them gloss over areas, insist on seeing the whole operation from start to finish (been on a few agricultural visits where they try to hide things).

Good for yu and your DH. I do not eat farmed salmon anyway, and this just makes me feel pleased with my decision.

o this is interesting. Thanks for all the info. Will only get wild, not that I buy salmon very often at all.

I am giggling here Mrsophable sorry on being such a serius topic but you have just descibed my friends late FIL who really was the salt encrusted, fag hanging from lip, as is his son but he doesn't smoke.

We also used to get the Russian trawlers around here.

not sure i can serve up dinner here at sophable towers as concentrated look and steam coming off laptop continue to be the MO round here.

MrSophable - In addition to that (re norwegian fishfarms) many farms are situated near rivers, so wild salmon "hanging around" outside the fishfarms might be infected by the many viruses and spread disease. Many farms are channeling water from salmon bearing rivers and divert it into their fishfarms, with the result that there is not enough water in the river for the wild salmon to reach their spawning places.

On the South Pacific documentary about industrial over fishing, it was implied that it was partly Spanish purse sein (sp?) nets that were hoovering up endangered tuna and bycatch in the south pacific. Moved there because of stringent EU monitoring, but surprise surprise, European consumers driving global catastrophe...

Herecomesthesciencebint: wild salmon is a good source of omega 3 , undoubtedly (but then so are sardines!). Like most predatory fish they do tend to have higher concentrations of heavy metals and other pollutants so i think with children you need to be sensible about the number of times you are eating it, just as you should be with tuna (should you feel confident that you're able to find sustainable tuna..not easy but don't get me started). better to source some of those healthy fishy oils from sardines, mackerel and herring. yes they have bones but they are also very very tasty.

well done you for passing on salmon in restaurants.

Obviously there is an other environmental factor in eating a fish that has been flown halfway around the world ...thats some carbon footprint, so another reason to think about fish lower on the food chain. cornish sardines and mackerel for example.

Quintessentialshadow: that is something i have not heard about norwegian farms..very interesting! do you have some sources for that!

Dear MrSophable, we heart you. Are you a fish man in your day job?

MrSophable - I have a question for you (sorry, now you and Sophable have become minor celebrities you may never be able to get away from the laptop)!

Despite my background being in Environmental Science I am ashamed to say that I rely on the likes of Hugh F W etc when making many of my food-purchasing decisions as I'm not as well up on these issues as I should be/used to be so I am extremely impressed at your ongoing commitment to this.

Like many of us, I have been in a quandry about which salmon is best to eat given the various issues you have outlined. I had been buying either Abel & Cole (smoked) salmon which is sourced from "small RSPCA-approved independent organic farms who adhere to the highest fish husbandry practices, where the fish swim in fast-flowing currents to keep them healthy and lean." or Waitrose organic farmed salmon - this decision was based on the MCS rating being stated (in HFW's fish book) as 5 for wild (don't eat) and 2 (eat more) for organically farmed. From your post above it sounds like you're more concerned about eating ANY farmed salmon than wild. Is that the case or is the environmental track record of these smaller producers much better?

Sorry for the ramble - long day!

I dont. My sister used to be a scientist, salmon was her field. She spent a lot of time in fishfarms in the area. She was discussing things with my father whose hobby was angling for wild salmon in waterfalls, I just remember snippets of conversation. (Have been reminded about it as been to court regards a salmon bearing river)

I owned a house for 10 years not far from where Marine Harvest had a fish farm. I gave up eating farmed salmon and trout pretty rapidly.

Very interesting - thank you very very much. I have strated to pass on this info to friends and family and will from now on either look for wild alaskan salmon ( can you also get wild from elsewhere that is ok or only from alaska?) or mackerel or sardines. How on earth do you cook and make these fish attractive to kids though?

My kids love salmon in pasta with sour cream and peas/ Will eat it endlessly though have been seriously rethinking since these threads...

"From your post above it sounds like you're more concerned about eating ANY farmed salmon than wild. Is that the case or is the environmental track record of these smaller producers much better?"

Yes- I am concerned about, and will not eat, all and any farmed salmon as the industry currently stands. Even organic farms have the environmental impact on local fish and shellfish populations (its simply unnatural to have a concentration of migratory fish in a cage ...all their excrement, the uneaten pellets , the anti lice treatments...they have to go somewhere).

And then there's the problem of what you feed the farmed salmon...i remain to be convinced there is such a thing as a sustainably sourced salmon feed pellet. I'm hoping Quentin and Waitrose are going to prove me wrong.

Fish and prawns can be farmed in closed containment systems which massively reduces the environmental impact of the farm. If there is a sustainable source of food for farmed fish then that would be great- though it would almost certainly still involve a concentration of pollutanats which would man some caution would need to be exercised about frequency of consumption.

mrsophable is trout from resevoir, linecaught by friend ok?
it must be put there = bad
but not farmed = good

what about whitebait? (not that i ever see any but i do love it)

Wow, this is very interesting, thank you. I was totally ignorant re salmon farming. Mind you, farmed fish tastes vile in general, imho. Fish is another food we should eat less frequently.

Qunitessentialshadow - would love to talk to your sister. And i am very intrigued by your reference to diverted river flows to salmon farms.

Lupusinalamasuit- purse seine is in some cases a very selective way of catching tuna. however, often they use FADs (fish aggregating devices) -basically a floating raft with a beacon under which fish , particularly juveniles gather...that attracts adult yellowfin and skipjack..the purse seine boat then comes along and scoops up the lot. problem is that will include young bigeye and bluefin and goodness knows what other juvenile fish which are then killed, and thrown overboard - this is bycatch: unwanted fish which the boat does not want to fill its hold with and which under EU quotas they are disincentivised from keeping. Millions and millions of tonnes of bycatch caught by trawlers, long liners and purse seiners gets thrown back into the sea, almost all dead ....a hideous waste. Now, that could be used to feed salmon....but as you cn tell it gets complicated.

my local fishmonger told ds that he should eat the eyes of fish when they were cooked. and so an obsession with fish was begun and we eat loads of it now.

hi franca