Now that processed meats have been deemed carcinogenic by the World Health Agency...

[Whoknewitcouldbeso]

Can I ask if you will be allowing your kids to eat sausages, ham, burgers etc? They are also warming about red meat in general so I can no longer feel virtuous when I cook homemade lasagne or shepherds pie.

My son loves sausages, I tend to buy the 98% pork ones but again, now thinking that I'm hurting him by letting him have sausages at all.

What are other people giving their children for dinner? I feel like I'm royally fucking up nowadays although I did make fresh cod goujons in a tempura batter two nights ago and he thought they were great. I must get at least one brownie point for the fish!

What's the big obsession with aspartame anyway? There are loads of additives why do people get so weird about that one?

As regards the meat debate, I always use Quorn mince for cottage pie, bolognese and chilli con carne. Even picky husband can't tell the difference and it is cheaper by far as well as being suitable for vegetarians.

I'm not sure if anyone (in all the discussions about stats) has pointed out that cancer is very much a disease of ageing. As life expectancy increases, so does diagnosis of cancer. I'd be interested to see stats for the under-60 population.

Aspartame is one of the new things that the 'natural foodies' got all het up about. They now refuse to acknowledge that their initial understanding, that it would instantly send all kids crazy, cause innumerable cancers and bring the known world to its knees, was mistaken. Lots of great research from people who have nothing to do with the manufacturers, even one or ten funded by the sugar industry, have shown this to be true!

Bannatee Quorn is not something I would feed my children now I know more about it.

We have a long history of bowel cancer in Dh family .
I'm not sure what processed meat is? We don't eat much bacon or ham maybe monthly or less. My boys like sausages but I don't understand if they are made in the butchers how they are different to mince? They said they make them fresh and only add a bit of padding ( can't remember what they said it was)
Is smoked salmon bad as it is the same as smoked ham ?

I use mainly pork and Turkey mince but do make the odd beef stew or burger.

My youngest is super fussy and sausages is one of the very few things he will eat
Dh are better and dd and I could easily be veggie .
Boys won't eat beans lentils nuts or quern though!

I'm not sure what to exclude !

Aspartame was an example of another food product that could potentially
have a negative effect on humans and is a proven neurotoxin and yet WHO haven't made such bold statemements about it.

pinkpeanut I think it's the salt and preservatives that are added to sausages that makes them processed. Have a word with your butcher, he might only put a bit of seasoning and breadcrumb in. Smoked salmon is not a processed meat though I have read that all smoked foods should be kept to a minimum. Smoked salmon is a treat for me so I eat it as it's not a regular in my trolley.

I don't think they add much salt he just said breadcrumbs herbs and spices

Smoked salmon is not consumed in huge quantities but my dad loves it so I get her the bits and add to bagels and cream cheese for breakfast ( she often won't eat a proper lunch!)

Check out the WHO video in the front page daily mail article...it shows a DR from a cancer institute talking about the findings and then another dietician who says the evidence is weak and that the findings are likely to have included people who don't have a good diet/are smokers/ who don't exercise etc anyway.
Can't seem to link the video.

Quorn is not something I would eat either, especially if you are trying to cut down on processed foods. Once I found out how it was made I never ate it again.

Do a google search on quorn. I don't go near it.

Also I avoid smoked salmon because most of it is farmed rather than wild Alaskan etc

Another Joanna Blythman article, this time on salmon

"For at least a decade, farmed salmon has been on the thinking consumer's 'avoid' list"

www.theguardian.com/environment/2006/oct/22/food.foodanddrink

Incidence in under 60s is increasing SlipperyJack.

(I was diagnosed aged 43)

www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/aspartame-truth-vs-fiction/

And the ingredients of aspartame are aspartic acid and phenylalanine. Both are naturally occurring amino acids. Aspartic acid is produced by your body and phenylalanine is an essential amino acid that you get from food.

The WHO and various dietitians have spent so much time on radio, television, in newspapers in the last few days. Desperately trying to find a sentence that will be understood by the millions of listeners, readers.

• The news is that the link between processed meat and cancer is no longer causal. There is now enough evidence to show cause.
• The causal link is not 'may cause' it is 'does cause' - but that does not mean 'will cause'. Red meat is currently said to 'probably cause'.
• The risk is relative and your RR is low, very low. So the comparison with smoking etc is ludicrous and a ridiculous misrepresentation of what the re-classification really means!
• In the UK there is not much processed meat, our sausages are not 'processed' as they are made from fresh meat, unlike many European sausages (which we might lump in with salami, etc)

So, processed meats are now a Class 1 carcinogen, along with fresh air!!

So, many papers are still monster shouting, methinks!

In the UK there is not much processed meat, our sausages are not 'processed' as they are made from fresh meat, unlike many sausages (which we might lump in with salami, etc)

I disagree that most sausages in the UK are not processed. They're not made from cured meat usually - salami, bacon, chorizo, pancetta - but most have either sodium nitrite or sodium metabisulphite added to preserve them.

Aplogies, rogue. I was sort of responding to something from much further up post, when 'what constitutes processed?' came up. I don't disagree but would look further at the content of vegetables... sodium nitrates metabolised to nitrites from all foods, it plays an essential role in cardiovascular health.

And then look at incidence of cancers n vegetarians vs meat eaters... not really conclusive evidence that this brouhaha is absolutely necessary. The RR of eating moderate amounts of processed meats is low.

All processed foods are best eaten only minimally.

Eg White cane sugar has nothing artificial added - but without the other nutrients in the plant - its effect on the body is hugely increased and it has no nutritional offering - no fibre, vitamins, minerals, fats, complex carbs; nothing. You could argue that there are completely natural sources of glucose, eg dates, but the sugar in dates has slightly less effect because of the fibre and they have useful amounts of essential minerals and vitamins.

Ah, but that way lies Paleo

I have to admit I was more alarmed at the outcry against Jamie O etc for trying to gain some control over sugary crap than I was over the raised RR my meat eating habits cause.

Paleo schmaleo!

If you mean that grains, tea leaves etc are processed I see what you mean, but there's a big difference between adding much larger quantitities of artificially produced chemicals to food than would naturally be found (eg sodium nitrites in bacon) and eating part of a plant, eg grains that have to be dried, cooked etc to make them digestible. There are degrees of processing - that's my point about refined sugar - it's so processed that all of the nutrients have been removed leaving only the quickly-into-your-bloodstream sugar.

So whole grains are less processed than bleached, white flour.

Don't get me started on glucose-fructose syrup!

FWIW I have several food intolerances (man are they boring!) including yeast and barley. A couple of slices of bread once a fortnight or so are okay, but yeast extract (I don't even know how they process yeast extract) - stomach pains and cracks in the corner of my mouth. Barley and malt (made from barley) are the same - barley grains (yum) in soup for example occasionally is okay but malt extract causes a much more noticeable reaction.

I suppose less processed food has lower concentrations of 'chemicals' and also have other nutrients which help to keep our blood, cellular and gut levels of 'chemicals' (natural or otherwise) at a healthy level.

Erm, rogue, we aren't disagreeing! We seem to be making the same point, from slightly different angles

And I meant that all food stuffs naturally contain nitrates and that the human body needs them for heart health. That the current 'alert' is a media manufactured fear-fest that is utterly unnecessary. A misunderstanding at best; a deliberate fear inducing misrepresentation at worst!

And while I would never ever try to minimise the horror of breast cancer - which is almost twice as common as colorectal cancer - the treatment for colorectal cancer is (usually) to cut out some (or all) of the colon or rectum. Sometimes a permanent colostomy is required. (colostomy bags are not free btw) If a colostomy isn't needed there's still usually/often a long period of recovery after which bowel function will not return to normal. No cancer is pleasant - but bowel cancer is particularly yucky....

Personally, I don't see avoiding processed meat as much of an inconvenience - there are plenty of alternatives and it's fairly easy to avoid - so in answer to OP's Q I don't give my (now teenage) DC processed meat or smoked foods (or anything with aspartame, glucose-fructose syrup or hydrogenated vegetable oil). As far as I know, they don't ever choose to eat bacon etc when they're out. sadly, DS eats far too much sugar sigh

It's not really surprising that processed meat increases the chances of certain cancers! Why would anyone think that artificially adding chemicals isn't potentially risky?!

Use soy sauce, anchovies and or seaweed seasoning for a similar 'umame' flavour (that smoked, bacon flavour).

Presumably meat was originally cured to preserve it. We don't need preserved meat now. Same with salt fish (bleurgh)

Mmm! I am disagreeing now... in that adding chemicals is what we do all the time. Soy sauce etc... artificial, processed etc

There is a lot of disagreement about what constitutes 'processed food', with very wide disparity from heated/charred/boiled to marmalised beyond recognition to chemically enhanced/changed.

And whilst we may not need processed meat there are plenty of countries where it is still essential. And, as it isn't really the cause of instant and agonising illness and death, and usually tastes nice (though I agree with salt fish being gross) there is little need to avoid it completely.

'Use soy sauce'

Google soy and health risks. My guess is that the WHO would never mention that, while definitely mentioning meat for the usual reasons.

"Should we worry about soya in our food?

Whether you know it or not, you'll probably be eating soya today. It's in 60% of all processed food, from cheese to ice cream, baby formula to biscuits."

www.theguardian.com/news/2006/jul/25/food.foodanddrink