any vegans/dairy avoiders on here?

[keithlemonsbackdoors]

...because I could really do with your advice!

I've been vegetarian for about 20 years (but would eat eggs, dairy and occasionally fish). However, after catching all of about 5 min of that Jimmy and the Giant Supermarket programme I've realised how hypocritical it is to drink milk, I just can't do it now that I know!

Sooooo... what's the deal with soya milk? Seems like it can cause all sorts of problems and it's full of additives. Would the odd soya yoghurt here and there be ok? I've tried rice milk, which was gorgeous on cereal, crap in tea and sent my blood sugar haywire! Would coconut or almond milk be better?

Also, how the hell do you manage without cheese? Or puddings?? (struggling to think of any that don't have milk in - I'm not giving up eggs yet btw)

Just to make things that bit more complicated, I have ibs so I'm scared to try anything new in case it gives me the galloping shits disagrees with me.

Any advice would be very much appreciated!

Hands up here.. I'm vegan, I don't miss milk but did miss cheese to begin with but not now. I use a vegan cheese sauce and can make mac & cheese, add nutritional yeast to some dishes for a cheesey flavour but don't use a fake cheese at all. I actually found that cheese & butter turned me after a while, the amount of fat in it and the smell (boke). I don't make a lot of puddings but there are lots of recipes out there so you won't miss out.

I was never a milk drinker, and only ever wet a cereal with it but I do like Alpro almond and hazelnut milk, Alpro natural yoghurt (a wee bit sweet but does ok even in savoury dishes). I drink black tea, pepper mint tea is lovely if you want to try black but don't like strong tea. Tesco do a free from dairy range and sell fake cheese (I've never tried it sorry) and dairy free spread so you can try these for starters.

I found it easier to just eliminate dairy rather than replaces it to start with, you will need to keep an eye on your calcium and vit D intake as so many diary products are fortified with them.

Good luck, I find it easy but I am sure not everyone would :)

Bonsoy is a fantastic soy milk. It is expensive, but wonderful. We order in bulk from Infinity Foods in Brighton (they supply health food stores), so we get it for a more reasonable price. You can make puddings with soy or rice milk.
What about cutting way back on cheese and just using it for flavouring for starters? You could buy good quality organic free range vegetarian cheese occasionally.

Why don't you find a local farm and a local cheesemaker and buy direct? You can go and meet the animals and check that you're happy with the welfare situation at the farm, and you'll be supporting local businesses.

I cut out dairy to BF my allergic DS. At first I used loads of soya products but I've been diagnosed with an underactive thyroid which is made worse by soya, so now I'm cutting out soya again. I've ended up using Oat Milk but I've never found an acceptable cheese substitute.

Thank you for your replies.

Multipoodles, you sound like you know your stuff! How long have you been vegan? I tried making porridge with rice milk this morning to see if it would offset the high GI, it was gorgeous with blueberries and almonds (ooh get me! I usually have choc shreddies) it sort of worked but I was ravenous two hrs later. Got some alpro almond & hazlenut, not impressed with coconut... there's quite a range of non dairy milk in our fridge! Saw the cheese sauce stuff and assumed it would be horrible. Tesco's own fake cheese spread is NASTY!

Having read up on the pros n cons of soya, I think I will just stick to tofu and the occasional fake yoghurt, but thanks for the suggestion clara

I was already buying organic dairy but even the most ethical dairy farming depends on the slaughter of male calves (there is one 'slaughter-free' dairy but they are very expensive and don't deliver to my area anyway). It just seems excessively cruel and wasteful and I can't justify being a part of it.

I think I may just have to come to terms with not having cheese anymore, or having milk in my tea. Was far too reliant on cheese and I don't do caffeine anyway (have rediscovered peppermint tea)

Apologies for the epic post, hope you're still awake!

Pudding-wise, you can make your own using dairy-free spread (Vitalite is good) and your milk substitute. You might need to use less spread than butter or more flour because it's a bit wetter.

Vegusto is probably my favourite vegan cheese but it is nit even really that comparable to dairy cheese. I prefer to think of it as an entirely different substance, handy for pizza, sandwiches etc but not cheese if that makes sense! For sauces many people use nutritional yeast to give a savoury 'cheesy' taste.

I wish there was a decent yogurt that wasn't soya- redwoods wot no dairy is made from pea protein I think but it's horrible! So I do have soya yogurt.

Good for you Keith, I've been vegan for just over a year now, have been veggie for 25. I was like you and wasn't sure how I would manage without cheese (think I was addicted!).

I decided to give myself a months trial, no pressure, to see if it was doable. After that the thought of milk, cheese or eggs just turned my stomach, so never looked back.

You just have to keep trying different things to see what you like. The Vegan Society website has some good basic recipes and the Vegetarian Recipe Club has some really good ideas too.

There's a threadful of us www.mumsnet.com/Talk/food/984090-Vegan-Vegan-friendly-MNetters-the-new-thread-sign-in-here. Come join us!

flatpack, cheese doesn't just miraculously appear. Cows are forcibly impregnated so that they can provide milk. Their calf is taken away from them at birth, and their milk used instead for humans. There is no way that a cow's welfare is anywhere on a cheesemaker's list of priorities. Go and meet the animals indeed! Beside the welfare issues, dairy isn't actually healthy for us.

Maybe I will give the fake cheese a go when i've forgotten what the real stuff tastes like (I am gonna miss the lardfest that is macaroni cheese! And I'll still have to make it because my littlest DS loves it). Pea protein yoghurt does not sound good Spicy! Does it taste like peas?? I discovered yesterday that Oatly cream tastes like porridge, astonishing!

It's very easy to get over-reliant on cheese when you go vegetarian, eh Louder I made spinach and ricotta canelloni with vegan ricotta (made all by myself!) today & it was rather nice. Will check out those websites, thanks.

Thanks Nouns, saw that thread but as i'm not actually vegan (still have eggs & fish, is there a name for that??) I wasn't sure if I'd be 'allowed' in! It was the bloke on that programme talking about male calves being shot at birth that did it for me, just too horrific for words. Apparently they showed it happening & loads of people complained - I'm very glad I didn't watch it all, think I'd still be crying now if I had! I do wonder how many of the complaints were about people protecting their right to remain blissfully ignorant though...

That should read Nohuns, obviously. Stupid autocorrect.

I like nouns! :) You are welcome, very much so, on the other thread, it is for vegans, vegan-curious, vegan-wannabes, vegan-friendlies! :)

Yes, quite. Once you know what happens, you can no longer claim ignorance. Shall I tell you about eggs, hens, and fish? ;)

I make mac cheese, my little one loves it, all vegan. Vegusto is your friend!

I'm picking my battles at the moment, DS 2 is vegetarian & bf (he's 2), DS 1 is 16 and was veggie until very recently (bloody teenagers & KFC!). DH is omni but as I do all the cooking they only eat meat when they're out.

Fish: horrible slow death, terrible for the environment, some species close to extinction, fishing quotas mean loads of dead fish get thrown back in. I'm phasing it out as I get used to not having dairy.

I know battery hens have an awful time so I only buy One Good Egg ones (seems like a bit of karma offsetting, but I could be kidding myself?) I know that male chicks get gassed as they are surplus to requirements, but at least hens don't have to continually produce chicks to lay eggs. And hens lay eggs anyway right? Have I missed anything because I would rather know!

I think The Vegan Society page explains it better than I can, www.vegansociety.com/resources/animals/hens-and-eggs.aspx. I don't know about One Good Egg, but I am distrusting of any industry that states it has animal welfare as a concern, when it exploits and continues to make profits out of an animal.
Eggs from someone who has rescue hens, probably ok, though I am also just rather grossed out about eating something that comes out of a chickens vagina. Ick!
There is also the environmental aspect, eating animals or animal products is not nearly as efficient as just eating a plant-based diet directly. Apart from road kill, maybe, but I always think that should be left to the real scavengers!

Macerator??! What is wrong with people?? Wish I had a big enough garden for rescue hens... Roadkill is probably a step too far!

keithlemonsbackdoors, I have only been vegan on and off for about two years, but faithfully for the last three months. Primarily I switched to vegan because I was diagnosed with MS two years ago, I detest animal cruelty and find it hypocritical to eat meat. I gave up dairy before that as I never really liked milk but cheese I struggled with, I used to love a good cheese board but now couldn't contemplate eating it, the very smell revolts me, and watching cheese melt nearly makes me sick :(

I like oatly milk too, but at the minute find the almond & hazelnut a bit more substantial, also Tesco had it for £1 a carton so I stocked up on it :) I make a mac and no cheese using the cheese sauce, it was one meal I really missed and it is my big treat now. You can see a picture of it on my blog (sorry not a food blog, an MS one) and this is my recipe, I am sure other vegans have better ones, I know you can do it with silken tofu but I wanted a quick one so came up with this.

alongdiagnosis.blogspot.co.uk/2012/05/mac-and-no-cheese.html

3 serving dairy free cheese sauce
100g Elbow Macaroni Pasta
10g serving Schwartz bacon bits
25g white breadcrumbs
15g nutritional yeast
1/2 tsp mustard powder
seasoning to taste

Boil the pasta, make up cheese sauce as stated on tub, add 15g nutritional yeast, mustard, seasoning, using a balloon whisk keep it moving as it thickens so it doesn't stick. Drain the pasta, add the sauce and put into a serving dish, add breadcrumbs and a few pinches of nutritional yeast sprinkled on top along with the bacon bits. Grill until toasted, serve with veg. Serves 2/3 people.

Sorry for the essay, I'm too young a vegan to give you the best advice but I try to follow good guidelines. Bonus for me is weight loss :)

Good luck x

Thanks Multipoodles, I'll definitely be giving that recipe a try!

Have you found that your diet has helped with the ms? I feel a lot healthier already except when I eat anything with soya in, whichis a bit inconvenient!

keithlemonsbackdoors, I have noticed a big difference in my MS. My major problems during remission are fatigue and balance, my balance has improved greatly and my fatigue is gone. I feel healthier and have loads of energy, I don't think I could ever go back to how I eat before. Vegan for me has been easy and as I know dairy causes so many problems I do get a bit preachy about steering people off it. Have you seen this www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-18432652 it really isn't good for us at all!

What's wrong with soya? I've been drinking it since I was 14! Have I poisoned myself?

Confession - I'm a corpse cruncher but I don't do milk.

I use a bit of soya milk in things like mashed potatoes, I don't take milk in tea or coffee, hot chocolate / cocoa though I need milk so use soya.

Porridge is fine made with water.

I also use fruit juice some times, so my mum's recipe for smoked haddock in milk I do substituting the milk for a mixture of OJ and water and add rice - really nice easy to do. OOps just realised that's no good for you, but try fruit juice instead of milk in porridge or cereal.

I choose coconut milk (Koko) for nutritional reasons as well as finding it works the best in tea! Rice milk can have arsenic in it (as can rice) so though it's fine I don't want it every day.

Soya is generally one of the most genetically modified of all foods and high in amounts of plant oestrogen. Any of these probably great in moderation but I'm just warier if using something everyday

Ps I sound fun don't I!!! Sorry to sound so negative but a friend recommended me a book which is quite fascinating on how modern manufacturing affects food etc but I ignore much of it for my own sanity