Frozen

[suddenlycupishalffull]

I may get flamed for this but here goes...I'm struggling a bit with the whole Frozen obsession for girls as young as 3. Generally, I am really uncomfortable with Disney's portrayal feminine beauty and I worry about pre-schoolers being influenced by this. I don't think girls as young as 3 need love stories (whatever happened to Sesame Street?!), and cynically what I see driving this Frozen industry is a huge effort to turn our daughters into consumers of Disney products (Frozen hair clips, party bags, dresses, the list go on). I guess I'm uncomfortable on two fronts: I don't like what the Disney princess industry does to the self-esteem of very young children (boys as well as girls) and I don't think children as young as 3 should be drawn into this. Am I the only one? Anyone else with me?!

suddenly, once we've waded through the interminable lists of what merchandise they got for Christmas and I've done a bit of firefighting about how not having both Anna and Elsa costumes doesn't make you a lesser being it's interesting to see how many of them mention the female characters as opposed to the male ones.
Some DC see it as Girl Power but most have a traditional view about who should be rescuing who and why they do it. Perhaps that's the covert costume design that harks back to traditional Princesses at work.
Bit of phonics in the Arna/Anna thing too!
Spontaneous outbreaks of 'Let It Go' - if I'm feeling generous it is an opportunity to work on their harmony singing. If I'm not I teach them new songs

I think some of the hidden messages in frozen are good but it isn't without flaws which I nearly started my own thread on the other week when I first watched it

If the so called "love doctors" (trolls) are love doctors, why didn't the tell the King and Queen that love conquered all and Elsa didn't need to hide it?

The parents encouraging Elsa to hide her gift is ridiculous. Not supportive parents at all.

Elsa sashaying through the castle after her transformation is a little annoying but hell, if I'd just built a fantastic castle and belted out that tune, I'd be holding my head up high and swinging my hips!

Seriously though,if you looked at the detail you can find fault but there are some really good bits. As adults we are more in tune with the hidden stuff than children. I love how Kristof is sensitive, not afraid to cry and challenges Arna on the whole marriage thing.

The Troll told the King and Queen that there was beauty and danger in her gift and that she must learn to control it, but fear would be her greatest enemy. The parents interpreted the message with fear, and hid her away, focusing only on the danger, not the beauty.

I also think Anna is a little twee and overly cutesy at times.

There's the scene where she throws the snowball at the ice monster and Christoph says something like 'whoa there little miss feisty' and it makes me grit my teeth. He sounds patronising, and to be fair probably just reminds me of things some men I dated [back in the far distant past] used to say to me when they wanted to be the big strong protector type, letting me know I was cute and sweetly amusing but really needed a man to look out for me.

Anyway, it annoys me.

I believe the line is 'feisty pants', nutcracker, does that make it worse or better?

I used to be anti Disney but have changed my mind since having DD. Still hate the sexualised portrayal (and Elsa ' s transformation is my least favourite part of the film) but there are a lot of good things.

The main thing DD is drawn to is the fact that female characters are always front and centre of the films
We love Toy Story and Cars in our house as well but essentially they're buddy movies - guys being with guys and women in the background as hangers on. At least Frozen thinks that women are important enough to get their own film.

Also - you don't hear the same criticism of super hero films. I'd say that their aggressive anti social behaviour was a poor role model for young boys but you have proper actors queuing up to play them in big budget remakes.

I think some of the moaning about Disney is a bit overdone tbh. Cinderella was on TV over Christmas and even that (from 1950) isn't a stereotypical Disney film. Our heroine overcomes her circumstances through her own character. Prince Charming doesn't even speak!

Coming back to this thread - someone earlier said that adults are fuelling consumerism.

This is so true. My dd doesn't give a shit about stuff - at Christmas she openes two presents and didn't care about the rest (she is 3). Her Anna doll has been in my work bag for days and she hasn't even noticed it missing.

My 5 year old has seen a lot of adverts etc etc and is much more asking for stuff. However I have to take the blame for some of it as I was the one who bought him stuff, probably demonstrating that getting things makes you happy (childhood issues!).

So let your kids watch the films if you want but you're the adult and you decide how you can interpret the film to your children (my DCs ask me a lot of questions after watching a film as they need me or DH to help them make sense of it) and resist buying the merchandise.

that got a bit deep

I thought Frozen was one of the best children's films from Disney.

Not because it's got the best storyline or anything (it hasn't), but because it was a massive change from the traditional "useless women" characters that do nothing other than simper or wail or generally do nothing of consequence.

I mean, Beauty and the Beast is a great film, but it's pretty much about a beautiful young girl who sacrifices her happiness for her father's release, and then gets Stockholm Syndrome. Yeah, she falls in love with the (verbally abusive) Beast, but then he magically becomes handsome again . The only glimmer of a message is that Gaston is handsome but a dick.

In contrast Frozen is really a good model for young girls.

a) Women can (literally rule) - I don't remember any Disney Queens being crowned when I was a kid. Only evil Stepmother Queens.

b) You don't truly know someone just from meeting them once - I really liked this aspect. Better than stupid bloody Cinderella who basically has one dance with the Prince and then marries him. The hell?

c) Women can have adventures too! - Whether it's Elsa building a fuck off castle, or the other sister jumping off cliffs, it was really nice to see female characters actually DOING stuff, other than sitting around sighing whilst the men were out advancing the plot.

d) The romantic plot line is just a side line to the relationship between the two sisters.

e) I like the fact the reindeer dude actually ASKS Anna/Arna/whoever, if he can kiss her at the end.

CONSENT DUDES. LEARN ABOUT IT HERE.

Someone mentioned the "Love Doctors" song "Fixer Upper" - they do specifically have a line in that saying "I'm not saying you can change him, because people don't really change. All I'm saying is that love is mysterious and strange" (or something similar).

OP- On the feminine beauty - I don't really get your point. Elsa is stunning, but Anna - the one we actually see the most of - is not particularly special looking.

I agree with you there Duplo, the pressure on boys in terms of acceptable models of masculinity seems just as strong, but only having girls it's not something I have any experience of.

there is some massive over thinking on here!!

virtually all the disney princess films have been developed from traditional fairy tales aand take a lot of the inspiration for the looks of the charactera from the original illustrations.

the consumerism only exists because parents go out and buy the crap that is being sold. and the consumerism isnt new or soley at the hands of disney, it has been around longer than pop culture and will remain long after.

you can see evil in anything if you look hard enough and at the end of the day kids like the story and the music, i have never yet met a child who has been psychologically damaged from a disney film

The Frozen film is nice, it's well done.

The merchandise - parents can decide whether they buy it,

I love Frozen. That is all.

op, just Let It Go

Phnarf Highway ;) I'm suddenly feeling the need to let down my hair and rip a big slit up my trackkie bottoms glamorous dress :)

We love it. DD didn't ask for any merchandise for Christmas because she doesn't watch adverts so doesn't know it exists. She got the dress from an uncle, the pjs from a granny and the dolls from another grandparent. She was over the moon. She will be into something else in a few months ....

DD loves it, as do most of her friends.

I do think their behaviour is shocking for Royalty, though. Can you imagine Princess Margaret screeching at Queen Elizabeth in front of all the Coronation guests?

The main thing DD is drawn to is the fact that female characters are always front and centre of the films
We love Toy Story and Cars in our house as well but essentially they're buddy movies - guys being with guys and women in the background as hangers on. At least Frozen thinks that women are important enough to get their own film.

Yes, this. I'd much rather have a thousand Tinkerbells or Frozens than the Lego movie or Toy Story where the female characters are sidelined almost to be non-existent.

My 3yo loves Frozen and I'm happy with that. She doesn't see it as a "love" story at all, she sees it as a story of 2 sisters, of friendship, of adventure and support, and she thinks it is very funny. Her favorite bit is when Olaf says "Watch out for my butt"

When I compare it to the Disney I grew up with - Cinderella, Snow White, Peter Pan etc I find it massively preferable. All the other kids films when I was a kid were very boy hero heavy - Star Wars etc. I don't recall any positive female character films in the 70's

I love the way the relationship between Anna & Christoff is left unresolved at the end - there is no "happy ever after ending" beyond Anna keeping her promise to replace his sled.

I brought an Elsa dress from ebay for Xmas (new £8) for Xmas and DD is starting to be aware of Disney merchandise as her Dad took her to the Disney store. She has asked for some small doll figures for her birthday and I'm happy with that.

I have 2 girls aged 7 & 3. Neither of them are obsessed by merchandising - I think that kind of behavior in children is very much parent driven.

Did anyone see Jo Whiley gushing about her "daughters" Frozen merchandise obsession on the Frozen programme that was on TV over Xmas?

Very clearly this merchandise obsession was driven by the Mum.

Frozen is one of the first Disney princess movies where there is no real love story. The younger sister gets duped and hurt by Hans I guess but it's more a tale of sisterly love and the sisters save each other rather than a handsome prince rescuing his damsel in distress as usually happens.

I'm not a huge fan of Frozen personally, I actually found it pretty boring and its one of my least favourite disney films to date (my DC also aren't that taken by it). But I like the fact it's "sisters doing it for themselves" .

Brave was the best one! Loved Merida so much, she's definitely someone for young girls to look up to. But then the crappy dolls they made of her were dreadful! Trying to sexify her . No need.

Yes, I think the message is about sibling love rather than romance. My dd was 10 when she first watched it, and what she actually like about it was that the true love was between the sisters, not with a man. (Think that's right, haven'y watched it myself)

Hate Disney but love Frozen and brave. I actually think Disney are beginning to step away from the stereotypical princess love story crap

i think kids see/watch films in different ways to adults. my 7 year old son just said its about a girl who cant control her anger.

i just asked 4 year old daughter and she said she don't know.... i know she likes the songs and dancing to it and stuff. but im not sure she really understands the film.

Disney was around when we were younger. How many have us have grown up with negative effects?