Frozen

[suddenlycupishalffull]

I may get flamed for this but here goes...I'm struggling a bit with the whole Frozen obsession for girls as young as 3. Generally, I am really uncomfortable with Disney's portrayal feminine beauty and I worry about pre-schoolers being influenced by this. I don't think girls as young as 3 need love stories (whatever happened to Sesame Street?!), and cynically what I see driving this Frozen industry is a huge effort to turn our daughters into consumers of Disney products (Frozen hair clips, party bags, dresses, the list go on). I guess I'm uncomfortable on two fronts: I don't like what the Disney princess industry does to the self-esteem of very young children (boys as well as girls) and I don't think children as young as 3 should be drawn into this. Am I the only one? Anyone else with me?!

My girls self esteem is ok. They love the film and so do I.

They'll move on and love something else soon enough.

And all will be well.

Yanbu. This was on a friends fb page. Make you smile. Thinks its been on mn before.... m.youtube.com/watch?v=gcrQvoCzs80

Have you not seen the film then, oP?

APlace I've yet to hit the High School Musical age...

I'm really interested that boys love it as well as I'd have thought it was mainly aimed at girls (women play the leads, it's about sisterhood etc).

U2 that's my point though - what if your girl wanted to spend the year dressed as Superman and your boy as Elsa...would that be ok? (In terms of societal expectations, not you personally) Could he go to a school party dressed like that? That's the problem with Disney and their gender stereotyping. I'm sorry but I don't think you can overthink the pink thing, it needs thinking about, it's important and it's not harmless.

Drink yes I've seen the film.

ActionMan yes there are a few non-white Disney princesses and they all fit the same Disney stereotype (thin, tiny waist, huge boobs etc)

The thing with the non-white Disney princesses is that they have Anglican features and hair, just different coloured skin.

That said, I think that's because they are targeting a western audience and create heroines who will appeal to princesses who look like them.

yabu, most of us who grew up with Disney did so without being permenantly scarred by it!

You're DDs will be around the stereotypical feminine beauty their entire life whether they watch Disney films or not.

They're only fairy tales, not everything is harmful!

Juno you're right they will grow up around it & I guess that's my point - why start at 3? It's so young! I'm sure I never watched Disney before I'd even started proper school. I can't remember when I watched my first film but I don't think at 3 I'd have had the attention span! :/

Dd3 (4) goes round saying 'you can't marry someone you've just met' when she's watched/read other princess stories

I fucking hate that film.
and
Cynical merchandising is what Disney does best nowadays.
I agree with both those comments. I would not hate the film if Disney made a film and did not try to add massively to their profits with all the expensive merchandise. The film has its faults but overall is a fun film but all the added hype and sales stuff puts me right off

Ood ha! Now that is good! That's definitely a message you want your daughters picking up!

Joanne yes I agree, generally I like the film, I like the message of sisterhood but I don't like the Disney princess industry, I don't like that it encourages 3 year olds to even be aware of how they look and that they should be buying things if they want to look like princesses. Girls of 8 are aware of how they look, their bodies are changing etc and so the message of tell the man who treats you like shit to take a hike becomes a healthy one. But at 3? Let them be kids just a bit longer without that burden just yet. And how is the princess thing even a thing, like it's a job or something now? When I asked DD what princesses do, she said 'sit in their castles and eat cake' . I do think Disney are slowly slowly slowly starting to move with the times and reflect modern audiences - doesn't the heroine of The Princess and the Frog want to own her own business?

The boys in DD's preschool and at other activities we go to love Frozen.

My teen has worn pink shirts to school.

One of my boys worse dresses for a while when we went shopping etc.

Can they do it at school without teasing? probably not and that's a shame, but I don't think that has anything to do with Disney.

YABU although I can see where you're coming from and agree about Disney's cynical merchandising.

My dd is coming up three and she likes Frozen because her big sister and all her friends do. She has a rucksack and pyjamas because she needed those things and why would I not get her the one she wanted if it's the same price as any other? She has an elsa dress because she wanted to dress up with her sister. Why would I say no?

It's a decent film that I don't mind them seeing but it's certainly not me driving the need for frozen everything on my older daughter's part. I said no to the overpriced tat that is the ice palace that she wanted for Christmas and refused to buy a frozen school bag until she actually needed a new one. But I'm not going to deny her the things that are important to her just for the hell of it.

My first dd hadn't watched a disney princess film before she was school age either. It doesn't work like that for the next child.

Ah I think YABU

My two little boys love crooning along to the songs.

"I'm not saying you can change him.. because people don't really change
All I'm saying is love's a force that's powerful and strange..
People make bad choices when they're mad or scared or stressed..
but throw a little love their way and you'll bring out their best"

and

"Everyone's a bit of a fixer-upper, That's what it's all about! Mother! Father! Sister! Brother! We need each other to raise us up and round us out..."

Those are messages I can get behind. Thin waists I can get over. I also like the fact it shows that nice looking Prince Charming types can have selfish, dangerous agendas. That's very true.

And Littlejohnnydory is right. My two and a half year old runs around saying he's the Hulk and has all sorts of crazy vocabulary, like nunchucks etc. His older brother hadn't even seen television at two. I am not kidding.

I loathe the fact that when Elsa transforms herself she has a split in her dress and sashays across the room. Both totally unnecessary. But my 4 year old notices, and wants dresses with a split and imitates the walk. Seriously Disney, why why why!

honestly, they know that they are creating heroines for small kids, why would they do that.

littlejohnny yes DD2 is already into things that her sister wasn't even aware of that age (she's 1). I do agree, if she wants Frozen jammies then fine, that's not problematic. Perhaps the fine balance to be drawn is as you say - no to the overpriced tat or buying things for the sake of it (ie you can have the Frozen jammies when you need a new pair etc) - I think that's where Disney try to plant the seed of consumerism - the branded hair clips at the till again, buying for the sake of it...

U2 sorry but I think Disney and others like it have a lot to do with shaping (and reflecting) what we as society think is acceptable for boys and girls to do/dress like/act like. In many ways I think this can be more rigid for boys than girls - it seems to me that boys have very few models of acceptable masculinity (though I don't have boys so don't have much expire niece of this).

Duplo ah yes that is akin to my experience with DD2! I don't know the film that well (watched it once) but I really like those lyrics, that's a good message. And yes the message of Prince Charming not always being as charming as he first appears is an important one - but again for a 3 year old? My problem is Disney are aiming this at 3 year olds, aren't they? And that's not appropriate it is? As StillProcrastinating says, the sexualisation of Elsa's transformation is evident. I like the message of her freedom, breaking the 'be a good girl' shackles, but why does that have to be symbolised in her letting her hair down (literally) and a massive spilt up her dress which bares her thigh as she sashays about her palace? For what it's worth, when DD1 said princesses sit in castles and eat cake, I told her that no Elsa builds her own castle, she is in fact an architect

I just say no when my kids ask me for stuff they can't have/ we can't afford/they don't need - am not sure it's up to Disney to teach my kids that.

I really don't think you can blame consumerism on frozen

Adults are the ones fueling this
Look at the so called adults fads of the last ten years
Uggs
Pandora
Must have latest tech
Bloody Christmas puddings with oranges in them selling for hundreds

We are to blame

Madeye I'm not blaming consumerism on Frozen, I'm concerned that Frozen branding is encouraging the start of consumerism in 3 year olds, which I think is too young. I wonder if it's as you say though, that it's not the kids driving the princess industry but the adults? Another poster said a similar thing. Do we wasn't our girls to look like little princesses and therefore buy into this stuff? Is that why it's so popular? It's about what the parents want for the kids, not so much what the kids want for themselves? I'm talking about the buying of things here, not the appeal of the film itself as it clearly does appeal to the kids themselves.

I actually think the Fixer-Upper song is the worst song in the film - you can change someone if you try hard enough. Yeah right thats healthy. even with the disclaimer line of 'we're not saying you can change him coz people dont really change'. Err yeah thats EXACTLY what you're saying.

See I missed all this sub-text to the Fixer-Upper song! I need to watch it again...