Obstetric violence - legs forced open against my will

[NibliaBiblia]

When I was in labour with my daughter, the midwives spent twenty minutes trying to force my legs open to get me flat on my back with my legs up. There was no emergency. It was so they could get a better CTG reading. I physically resisted for as long as I could and verbally told them to stop. They didn't stop until I gave up. After that they did other things without my consent, but I did not they to stop them again.
I complained to the hospital and they have done nothing. I complained to the police and they told me there must have been an emergency. I've complained to the NMC and the CQC. I hope they will do something but it's a long process so I won't know for a long time.
The police used to say that domestic violence was a private matter. They used to say that if you got in the car/went into the apartment/were drinking then you must have agreed to it. I think this is exactly the same type of justification, applied to equally criminal behaviour.
I don't think my experience is abnormal. I think this is fairly routine. They thought that when I gave up that meant I consented.

There is a specific law, the Mental Health Act, that deal with patients with mental health problems who may be a danger to themselves or others.

People like Valdo Calocane can't be forced to have anti-psychotic injections in the community, but they can be detained in a secure hospital ('sectioned') if they won't have them.

Someone else mentioned Jehovah's Witnesses. A doctor can overrule a parent to give an emergency lifesaving blood transfusion to a child. They can't overrule a pregnant woman and perform an emergency c section to save her baby's life - because it's still inside her body.

Thank you! The posts on this thread have really surprised me but I guess they shouldn't....

I completely agree with you.

Because I’ve always had trouble with internal examinations when it comes to fingers etc.

its worth noting I was young, have neuro divergence and I literally did not understand what was happening to me.

my body involuntary went into spasm and the midwife pushed her fingers up me and tore something. Then complied that I was crushing her fingers.

And As I said I went onto have more children.. the midwives treated me with more compassion and understanding and I was able to have internals in those labours.. with gas and air

You can't assault someone by doing CPR, because you should only be performing CPR on someone who is already dead.
You can only assault living people.
I believe there is some sort of offence of interfering with a body, I doubt attempting CPR would fall under that.

I agree with this overall though I think what happened to OP was probably wrong, assuming the midwives did not have an urgent reason to do what they did.

Otoh I don't think pp was endorsing free birthing (I hope!). I think she was saying why some women feel (wrongly) it's a better option due to NHS failings.

This.

This. It sounds wrong but it's hard to judge without full picture.

This is why we need to go to the police when this happens.
People used to think that your husband knew what was best for you, that if you go to work then obviously men will harass you, if you had a drink you were asking for it.
I bet some of these commenters would have been telling women in the eighties to shut up and enjoy their routine episiotomy because if they hadn't had it they would have torn in half and the baby would have died.

There’s plenty of evidence to suggest that CTG is not generally that helpful- lots of false readings and machine error plus shifting focus from labouring woman. OP that is horrific and I’m sorry you had no one to advocate for you. Thus is why I had three home births.

I was desperately holding my legs together for twenty minutes. How can that possibly be construed as consent?

Internal exams are not medically necessary. I didn’t have any at all with my second and third births. A good midwife has other ways of judging what stage a labouring mother is at.

Former midwife here.

I am astounded they tried for so long without a chat, or trying to make it work around your position. This happens a lot as babies descend in labour prior to birth, what a waste of 20m versus having a chat! If I. Was that concerned about the heart rate I would’ve sought another midwife and/or an obstetrician to assess and make a plan. TWENTY minutes is an awfully long time to keep trying to get someone to do something versus trying something else and being adaptable.

I’m really sorry OP.

Prolonged loss of contact on a CTG is classed as an emergency in my trust. However the way you were manhandled is not acceptable. They should have spoken to you about their concerns, what they were recommending, risks and benefits and an alternative if you did not want to be on your back (as is your right to decide). If there had been concerns about the fetal heart rate on the trace, again this is something that should have been spoken about.

What happened after the CTG went back on?

Have you spoken with a professional midwifery advocate?

How do you tell that the umbilical cord is wrapped tightly around the baby's neck without an internal exam?

This was awful to read and gave me flashbacks of a birth I try hard to forget.
I was told I had to be induced (but was already in labour…), then I had to have internal monitoring throughout the whole thing, then was shrieked at and ordered to lie flat on my back for the duration or the monitoring wouldn’t work. Nobody discussed why this was happening or talked through consequences or options at any point. It was baffling and I felt like I was in trouble.

It’s like if someone had said “do not resuscitate” and was then resuscitated. You have rights to refuse medical treatment even if every doctor disagrees with you.

It’s rarely a problem if it is but also I have never felt so deeply into a woman’s uterus in labour to feel her babies neck! Once the head is born you can feel the babies neck then and unhook if needed.

They just carried on with whatever they wanted to do. Guided pushing, stretching my vagina, active delivery, etc. they certainly didn't ask my consent for anything else, but I didn't try to stop them any more either.
Baby was born perfectly healthy, although there was an unrelated emergency later in which I happily cooperated. I could tell it was an emergency because they pushed the buzzer, people ran into the room, and they said it was an emergency. It was a shoulder dystocia which resolved within less than 60 seconds of her head being born, and then a bit later PPH that was apparently (from the notes) probably due to my labia tearing.

Sorry, I haven't read the full thread so this may have been suggested but have you requested your medical notes to see what was written by the midwives during that time?

I am sorry you feel so strongly about your experience but as someone who used to work within the maternity department of my local hospital I do feel that midwives are damned if they do and damned if they don't.

Maybe push PALS again and see if you can have a meeting with the departments managers to get a clearer understanding of what went on that day?

Are we talking about a ctg like a hockey puck on a band, or the clip on the baby’s scalp?

No. They "Treat in best interest" - which sounds like what they've done in your case too. Which is covered by law as its in the (patients) best interest at that time, in that situation, in that moment.

Yet you managed to keep your legs closed for 20 minutes with multiple people doing this?

Yes absolutely. The baby is not the patient, the mother is. A woman having no right to bodily autonomy just because she's pregnant puts us one step closer to gilead.

Something a there can be concerns with the CTG.bit if it looks like birth is imminent then they will just get baby out.

The big issue though is you don't know which suggests to me no-one spoke with you or told you what was happening. I would never put my hand inside a woman without asking her first, and even if it's an emergency you still ask or explain. Consent is a massive deal in obstetrics and it's something we get taught about every year in our mandatory training. The fact they gave you a drug without asking or getting consent is another issue

Sorry if you have already said this but have you had a debrief where someone has gone through your notes with you to explain why decisions were made and things happened whilst looking at the trace and notes etc.

As for the comment above about you managed to keep your legs closed for 20 minutes, not even worth a response.