Why women aren’t having babies

[SmudgeHughes]

I saw a young woman post this on social media recently and thought it was so well-expressed that I had to share.

‘The problem isn’t that men want more children but that too many men want them without restructuring their own lives to carry the burden of parenthood.

If men matched their desire with an equal willingness to parent like taking the night shifts, booking the appointments, shouldering the career sacrifices then women would be more open to the idea.

Until then, women are simply refusing to be the ones who pay the highest price for someone else’s dream.

That’s not selfishness but wisdom hard earned through centuries of women being told that family is everything only to find out that "everything" really meant everything is theirs to do.

Women are increasingly unwilling to subsidize men’s dreams with their own exhaustion. They are making rational decisions about their capacity and saying no not because they don’t love children but because they know love alone doesn’t neutralise burnout, stalled careers, unaffordable childcare or the silent erosion of identity that comes when one partner carries the bigger share of parenting.

So when men say they want more children women hear something different like, I want the idea of more children but I haven’t accounted for who will actually raise them.

It’s similar to someone who dreams of a puppy without calculating who will walk it or clean the accidents on the rug. Women have woken up to a truth previous generations often swallowed.’

There was more; just thought it was beautifully expressed.

That's not what I see around me. My friends with adult children are living pretty much a childfree life. Of course they are still responsible for them at some level, but it's not a daily job anymore. They can work, travel, have hobbies, etc.

I have teenagers and there's no comparison to the number of hours I dedicate to them now, and 10 years ago. I have a life now.

I agree re playing out being v hard now, that must change. Abuse too is ofc a worry, though much less likely with teen girls at least.

Did teen babysitters in the past have first aid training?

I agree maturity would need to be established. Maybe better would be teens, at least at first, helping with the kids of friends & family, with adults present.

Not a problem at all! It turned out to be undiagnosed intolerances to a number of things, including things I was eating affecting them via breast milk, and when I switched to formula in desperation there turned out to be a milk intolerance, which took ages to get diagnosed as it wasn’t an allergy - so whilst it caused vomiting, colic, and problems absorbing nutrients, which in turn caused growth issues, it wasn’t prioritised in the same way in terms of needing NHS care. Their growth may have been permanently affected, and will admit I struggle not to feel bitter.

I'm not sure what your point was about couples treating money as joint money Vs individual incomes, can you explain why that's an issue?

Because often when a woman 'sacrifices her career' she ends up with a better quality of life because the household income is higher with the man as the primary earner and the money is shared.

(and yes I know it can be a risk and some men are financially abusive, but most women say things like "it made sense for him to be the primary earner").

My ex wanted me to pay 100% of the bill “just pay the bill not like you’re struggling for money” whilst he supposedly supported his child by giving his ex most of his wages.

I’m not particularly maternal and am still on the fence about having a baby (unbelievably, given I’m in my mid-30s…), but even I’m surprised about the level of child-freedom among my social circle. We range from early 30s to late-40s and there’s barely a baby in sight.

Also, there are so many child-free celebrities now. I realised that just taking the last show I watched, White Lotus, most of the main actresses who are over 40 are child-free (Jennifer Coolidge, Aubrey Plaza, Parker Posey, Leslie Bibb, Natasha Rothwell, Charlotte LeBon).

Much more acceptable to opt out these days (which is a good thing!)

The genie analogy is spot on. Women are disproportionately impacted by parenthood and we simply can’t unsee or unlearn that. Consequently, fewer and fewer women are falling for it.

I think it is a bit more simple than that.

I believe this is the first time in history that women have been able to actually chose whether to have children.

I think it’s the opportunity cost for some women and the lack of suitable partners for others. Frankly I hesitated to have a child because I was busy doing my own thing. I did end up having one and Dh is definitely an equal parent (he’s always been a responsible sort but he actually did better than I expected) but we stopped at one because I didn’t want any more (dearly love my child but it is a lot of work). Other women I know who didn’t have children simply didn’t find someone to have them with.

I have a great husband who does his fair share. Among my female friends there isn’t a single one who doesn’t carry the majority of the burden of children. Most have completely stalled careers and are always ill/knackered. We stopped at one because we knew mentally and physically we wouldn’t cope with another. This is why!

Honestly this doesn’t ring true to me. I think it’s men who reject family formation because they don’t want to settle down. How many forever boyfriends do we see around here?

It is said that the fertility rate is heavily tied to the marriage rate, and that the number of children in a family hasn’t changed all that much, it’s that people aren’t pairing up as much as they used to

And I almost 100% place the blame on men for this. (Maybe somewhat unfairly but I do believe that men are just dragging their feet on growing the fuck up)

Yes, I've read a big incel (& some others) argument is that if women don't submit to their men, men don't see marriage as worthwhile so are happier to stay single.

I don't think it has to be that way AT ALL, but sadly I think more men think that way than one might think.

Well tbf a lot of stuff on this thread concerns men's behavior.

My partner and I aren't married though after 22 years but we fully share our life together,bwe just didn't want kids, YouTube is full of travelling couples that spend 24/7 together but just don't want kids. Plus a lot of unmarried couples have kids too.

I agree - holidaying all the time now. Wild swimming, Pilates etc Not doing anything different from my child free peers. Added enjoyment of time spent with adult daughter and granddaughter in between. Win win

I am glad it works for you. However most women are far, far better being married to the father of their children than not. Arguably the children are better off too, but know that is a highly contentious view.

This is it, it is 10-20 years out of an adult life of 60 years. That leaves 30-40 years of adult freedom.

But you wanted kids. For those of us who don't, we don't want to spend 10-20 years doing something we don't want to do.

I think this is less and less true with the rise of neuordiverisity and disability generally as well as societal stuff like COL.

They're just combating the relentless "having children is so horrible and you'll never have fun again for the rest of your life" messaging. You don't have to have children if you don't want to but I think it's good to hear realistic, normal, stories about what it's actually like.

I know a lot of women without children my age (mid 30s) - I would say maybe 1 is 100% committed to definitely not wanting kids. She knows lots of people with them, including close friends/relatives, and enjoys giving them a quick high five/cuddle then handing them back so she knows what it's like and knows she doesn't want it.

I know probably another 10 who are in that vague "kids? I don't really feel a strong urge" sort of state, or "maaaaybe in the distant future". They would all self-describe as not wanting kids but over the last year or two as more of our friend group have had them, they have become more curious and realised it wasn't as bad as it is portrayed. I don't think they are in the same category as the first woman.

The problem is that things are changing by generation, people with young kids now have no idea what the future is going to be like for those kids because the jobs market is shocking, cost of living is shocking! Those kids could be still living at home when they are 30+ years old because they can't afford to move out. People might still have to financially support kids through 20s to 30's and then if grandkids come along and there's no money for childcare it'll end up being the grandparents that take that on as well.

Yep, there is a lot of scaremongering. There was a post on here a few months ago by somebody in her 20s, asking why people with kids even had them given you don’t sleep for the first five years, never have a moment to yourself again, have to give up all your hobbies, won’t be able to afford to travel or do anything, never see your friends and have to say goodbye to your career. She seemed convinced that having kids immediately relegated you to a life of lonely penniless drudgery, with only the washing up to entertain you.

And lots of us were pointing out that we hadn’t really experienced any of that.

Obviously some people experience some of that to some degree, but not everyone and not all of those things and not for the full 18 years of childhood.

Another bonus I see to far less women having kids is that perhaps we'll stop seeing this bias from hiring managers that it's a bad idea to take women on of child rearing age because they are bound to want maternity leave at some point! When I was in my twenties I was literally told in the interview that they never had any intention of hiring me because they had an older lady interested in the job that was past child rearing age! And you can protest that you don't want kids but they don't believe you! It's high time that women weren't seen as guaranteed breeders!

Yeah but then it gets harder to get accommodations in the workplace either. Bit of a double edged sword

Eloquently put and probably accurate. I think fathers who truly take on 50% of everything and fathers who take on nothing are probably outliers and for most of us it sits on a sliding scale somewhere inbetween. But.. I also think there’s a risk of “cutting your nose off”. My husband pulls his weight in most areas, but yes the mental load, the organising, the admin the “holding it together” sits 90% with me, alongside a full time job in a high paying career.. And no it’s not easy, and yes I could push him harder and no I don’t really believe women can have it all, even though I have a pretty good balance. But having my child is still the best thing I’ve done, is still the thing that gives me the most fulfillment. Could I do it full time.. no.. am I grateful for my career.. yes.. but if I had to choose being a mother would come first. As we head towards university believe me there is not a single thought of ‘Oh we’ll get that fun lifestyle back’, ‘we’ll be able to travel more, spend more, relax more’ etc I’m just preparing for my whole heart to leave home.. It will never be perfect, it will always be hard, but I’d do it again, I’d do it alone, and even though there will always be things in life I’d change, do better, choose differently, my child… not one of them. Lifestyles change, they’re meant to, life is hard sometimes, it’s meant to be, and if you wait for “perfect” you’ll only ever wait.. Making a choice not to have children because you don’t want to have children is 100% valid, but I wouldn’t advise making it because ‘my career, my lifestyle, my partner’.. make it based on you alone and be sure you won’t regret it.