Why women aren’t having babies

[SmudgeHughes]

I saw a young woman post this on social media recently and thought it was so well-expressed that I had to share.

‘The problem isn’t that men want more children but that too many men want them without restructuring their own lives to carry the burden of parenthood.

If men matched their desire with an equal willingness to parent like taking the night shifts, booking the appointments, shouldering the career sacrifices then women would be more open to the idea.

Until then, women are simply refusing to be the ones who pay the highest price for someone else’s dream.

That’s not selfishness but wisdom hard earned through centuries of women being told that family is everything only to find out that "everything" really meant everything is theirs to do.

Women are increasingly unwilling to subsidize men’s dreams with their own exhaustion. They are making rational decisions about their capacity and saying no not because they don’t love children but because they know love alone doesn’t neutralise burnout, stalled careers, unaffordable childcare or the silent erosion of identity that comes when one partner carries the bigger share of parenting.

So when men say they want more children women hear something different like, I want the idea of more children but I haven’t accounted for who will actually raise them.

It’s similar to someone who dreams of a puppy without calculating who will walk it or clean the accidents on the rug. Women have woken up to a truth previous generations often swallowed.’

There was more; just thought it was beautifully expressed.

I had somebody tell me the other day that those if us that played out all day (I'm an 80's kid) were victims of abuse because we should have been kept indoors all day where our parents could see us! People who are that neurotic and placing such unrealistic expectations on people are another reason that people stop seeing the appeal of having kids.

I mean, it is fair to say that you hear of a lot more bad things happening to kids now, I think life started change a bit after what happened to Sarah Payne.

I agree somewhat, but otoh isn't all this talk about sleeping a bit exaggerated? Most babies are shown to start sleeping for around 6 hours by 6 months, and getting much more settled by 12 months.

Esp as most people are having 2 or even 1 now,,it's not that long to sleep badly, tho obvs it's very hard for that time.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=www.sleepfoundation.org/baby-sleep/when-do-babies-sleep-through-night&ved=2ahUKEwirn7yL04OQAxVFWkEAHWmmHVYQzsoNegQIKxAQ&usg=AOvVaw36cMXgHRn3gPbBRobuQ41a

And why should babies HAVE to mean promotion is impossible? Plenty of families take their babies abroad from young ages.

Good point about seeing babies more. Children too, children playing out more would make then more familiar. Also boys & girls babysitting.

It's hard but we must ignore these cruel people who want all mothers to be martyrs.

Yeh I look at friends with kids and these days they get a pile of presents for Easter, several expensive advent calendars, a pile of presents for Xmas eve and an even bigger pile for Xmas day! It's like Facebook contest of whose kids get the biggest pile of presents!

Yes SM encouraging consumption. Ofc presents are lovely but it's too much.

Completely disagree.

The point of that statement was more that the current generation of women quite rightly aren’t prepared to disproportionately shoulder the brunt of child rearing. They don’t think they’ve invented anything new at all. They’re just not afraid to stand up for themselves, their careers and individual identities. I think it’s great that women aren’t having kids just for the sake of it/fit into what they think society expects of them. They’re calling out men, if they’re serious about wanting kids, to quite literally put their money where their mouth is 🤷🏻‍♀️

Such a shame that kids can't play out anymore and ridiculous that it should be labelled as abuse!

My partner and I have been together over 22 years and we both knew fairly early on that kids just didn't appeal to us, we love travelling and I bet we follow maybe 20 child free couples on YouTube that full time travel so it's definitely a decision that many couples make together.

I do think that it'll be future kids if there isn't so much competition for jobs and career opportunities because the jobs market is awful right now! Far more people job hunting than there is jobs.

I think people realising that it can be other things in life that bring pleasure has released a genie from a bottle that won't go back in now.

Is this in relation to the idea that women have a 50% chance of having children after 28?
I can see why you'd interpret it that way but in fact it's more that the women who DO want children are being prevented by men being useless.

I totally agree about seeing everyone else having kids - I think it would really help if there were more two career parents in their 20s. Younger mums are often written off as "not very professional". Maybe making such families more visible (and not rich/famous/influencers, those aren't exactly attainable lifestyles).

The problem is that most couples don't see it in terms of 'me' and 'him'. It's usually 'us' and 'our' money.

Men tend to earn more. They do the longer hours, the more dangerous jobs, and they are often slightly older than us and a few steps further up the ladder.

What women say and what they do are often two different things. Most won't choose to be the main worker and have a lower household income when they could have loads more free time and still have more money in the joint account.

Women are actually working increasingly more hours, though, including overtime.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-53558250&ved=2ahUKEwi41-vp5oOQAxVUVkEAHbe_LvUQFnoECB8QAQ&usg=AOvVaw05D5PlvQvv_7wZI96HZcev

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=www.hrmagazine.co.uk/content/news/uk-women-working-60-more-overtime-than-male-counterparts/&ved=2ahUKEwjzmq2L54OQAxUNXkEAHSodFcwQFnoECBcQAQ&usg=AOvVaw3CTaoUsh5qqE7V1A_TGE86

All of this is true but... Fundamentally having a damaged pelvic floor and a kid in your house at the end of a hard day's work is a hard sell for many.

Yes, I see that.

, this is why I would never consider vaginal birth...C section has risks ofc but I would rather risk those.

C section doesn't remove the risk, pregnancy damages your pelvic floor through the weight. Ofc so can age so there's not necessarily any escape but pregnancy is a risk factor. This is a digression tho.

My point is having kids isn't an objectively attractive prospect when shorn of the hormonal dimension so making them cheaper isn't necessarily a sell

You could give me a free gecko and I still wouldn't want it

Your first link doesn't work and the ONS data in the second is several years old.

Recent ONS data from the past year shows men working more o/t - see link below.

Also, I think that's the only study I've seen saying women work more o/t. It makes the specific point that it's easy for part time workers to go over their hours. For me, it's different doing a few extra hours when you've already done 50 vs when you've only worked two eight hour days.

Also, men tend to do the jobs with longer core hours. For example, I work in construction and wouldn't get paid o/t in my last job until I was past 50 hours in that week. In my current job I get paid o/t rate after 6pm. Yesterday, I started 4am and didn't finish until 6pm due to issues onsite. I did 14 hours but none was considered overtime as I finished before the cutoff.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/earningsandworkinghours/bulletins/genderpaygapintheuk/2024#pay-differences-between-men-and-women

When women are generally the ones expected to take the hit on their career and go part time in order for the man to maintain his full time job while she does all the school runs etc I wouldn't say it's surprising that men are doing more overtime Vs women, because they aren't expected to work their job around the children

I'm not sure what your point was about couples treating money as joint money Vs individual incomes, can you explain why that's an issue?

Personally a lot of women that are childless that I know, out earn their partners, but a lot of the ones with children have had to cut their income to take on the childcare and therefore earn less than their partners

Agree with OP, but I also think it's sad that people are put off having kids because of the first few years. In my case, the first 10 years were incredibly shit, but then it got better and I'm happy I have these 2 people in my life. People forget that having children is for life, while having kids lasts 20 years. After that (I guess) your life is yours again.

That's quite an 80s policy, unfortunately. Kids are enmeshed for life now.

Do they have to be though? Can this not be changed?

It is in the Western world and Far East where fertility levels have dropped the most though, some areas like central Africa and the middle East women still do have large families, I think that in a way it is just because our society no longer prioritises and elivates having children, so it has sort of spiralled.

I read that it's because of the pension system, we don't rely on children to support us in old age, but as it is unsustainable maybe we will have to move back to that model, of less choices in the future.

fertility map of the world

So when people don't need children to look after them when they're old, they don't want them? That seems depressing..

I've read people saying similar about people having more kids where they work for the family from a young age.

Don't forget huge numbers of women in central Africa lack contraception & don't have much choice about refusing sex. That's hardly a good thing, is it? It's not just that they value children more.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=www.fp2030.org/news/building-a-coordinating-mechanism-in-central-africa-a-strategic-move-to-accelerate-family-planning-in-the-sub-region/%23:~:text%3DThe%2520importance%2520of%2520family%2520planning,to%2520FP2030%27s%25202023%2520measurement%2520report.&ved=2ahUKEwj_wdrE9IOQAxXwW0EAHVEpDKUQzsoNegQICxAZ&usg=AOvVaw3v5V3uMOck0vqIGIMaJ4D2

Same for Middle East, which is obvs still very patriarchal. There's actually a significant fall there.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=www.dw.com/en/middle-east-fertility-slump-fewer-babies-big-problems/a-73201865&ved=2ahUKEwiM5ZXr9IOQAxWJW0EAHYA9KOQQFnoECDIQAQ&usg=AOvVaw3BuoE0MstmB7AOUOiLBd9A

Hahahaha! Mine didn’t sleep for more than 40 minutes at a stretch until nearly 2 years! After than they would wake up, vomit, and start crying. Day and night. They didn’t manage two hours at a time until nearly 4 years old. I was back at work and basically insane from sleep deprivation. That was with ONE child.

Plus, “boys and girls babysitting”? What young teenager these days has the appropriate first aid training and maturity? Plus the more people read about abuse by children in families, by friends, by neighbours, the more paranoid they get. As for playing out, for those of in cities by big roads? No chance

That's terrible, I'm really sorry. Would it be OK to ask why he was vomiting so often..? I get if not.