Transwoman on women's ward

[Sallycinnamum]

Had a minor gynae procedure today but nevertheless was very anxious leading up to it.

Was wheeled back to the day ward to be greeted quite literally (started waving at me) by a transwoman in the bed opposite me.

There was no doubt he was a man and being completely immobile due to a spinal anaesthetic with no underwear on I asked the nurse to completely close the curtains so he couldn't look directly at me.

Spoke to a nurse who confirmed it wasn't a mixed ward.

I am so upset. I felt so vulnerable especially as I couldn't walk so had to pee into a bedpan in clear earshot of him.

I've emailed PALS but I feel so bloody fed up of it all. Had a man next to me in the M&S lingerie changing rooms a few weeks ago and was made to feel like a total bigot when I complained to the staff.

Male entitlement and good old fashioned misogyny are the issues here. Stop trying to twist realities to your agenda.

And male entitlement and good old fashioned misogyny is what you ooze and your agenda. You're anti-feminist. You promote the feelings of MALES over the needs and rights of the female sex to safety, privacy and dignity. You should be ashamed of yourself. You really should be.

Quite. Jewel52 lives in an echo chamber where no one dares to speak of the issue around her and they know how deeply misogynistic, anti-feminist and penis-pandering she is. In the real world, this issue is talked about a LOT. And these dick-panderers are in an ever-decreasing minority. That's what Jewel52 has to understand. She is in a tiny ever-decreasing minority outside of her cloistered echo chamber, where people around her know well enough not to challenge her deeply misogynistic and anti-feminist mindset.

@Nopicturesallowed HE is a HE. And HE still has HIS penis, HE admitted it. OP said HE said HE has no intention of removing HIS penis. HE is a male; by DNA, by chromosomes, and BY PENIS AND BALLSACK. HE should be on the MALE ward. Gaslighting a a female to ignore her eyes and her lived experience as the oppressed sex to mis-sex a man and be a cosplay in a his fetish is bloody cruel and disgusting! Would you cosplay with Rachel Dolezal and call her an African American? Shame on you!

They feel that women rejecting them is oppression and "actual violence".

Imagine having lived a life where you have never experienced actual oppression so you think that people disagreeing with you is oppression.

FFS! The percentage of men convicted for sexual crimes is approximately 5% for men who don't have a trans identity and approximately 17% for men who identify as trans.

The transwomen are MORE dangerous for women than men who do not identify as trans.

And you compare the threat of rape with the uncomfortable feeling you get when Mumsnetters don't agree with you? Can you not see that that is offensive? Overdramatic?

Also @Jewel52 that is your experience you are reflecting upon. Don’t minimise other women’s experiences or views. Dont conflate prejudice with genuine discomfort.

That would be akin to putting me on a ward full of old men and when I ask to move, saying that I’m being prejudice against old men.

Exactly this! Couldn’t have said it better.

Reminds me of the line from a film somewhere 'angst: privileged people's substitute for having real problems'.

Psychologically you've got 'your disagreement is a threat to my argument and perspective' being collapsed into 'your disagreement is a threat to me'.

Obviously not a lot of experience of coping with disagreement.

Yes, you're right, male entitlement and good old-fashioned misogyny are the issues here - men believing that they have the right to access single-sex spaces simply because they've decided that they are now female instead of male and woe betide any woman who has the temerity to argue the point. She'll be labelled as a terf, hounded out of her job, abused, threatened, intimidated and vilified if she doesn't wholeheartedly embrace the TWAW nonsense. You, your co-workers and sisters may be happy to accommodate the whims of the bros, but those of us who have spent our whole life fighting for womens' rights aren't going to roll over so easily. I don't doubt that some people do suffer from genuine gender dysphoria, but the vast majority of trans identifying men are indulging a sick sexual fetish at womens' expense and the amount of people that have been conned into enabling this is as horrifying as it is sickening. I'm with OP every step of the way!

The thing is, we all live in the real world and we know how men behave towards women - OK, some men. But it is because of some men that women have women only spaces. And so the facilities exist.

We are not building a new society from the ground up. We are using what we have. And what we have is single space spaces, put in place because of some men.

And the reasons for these single sex spaces have not gone away. All that's happened is that another group wants access to them.

We are allowed to say no to their flimsy arguments and bring out our own evidence.

You cant just allow the noisiest group to win.

It's also not only about women's safety. Women want and need single sex spaces for all kinds of reasons.

It's not the case that it's ok for men to use women so long as they don't actually damage them too much too often. It's not the case that men should always be able to force access to women as resources until it can proved sufficiently that the women are harmed to a point that a peer reviewed committee will agree is a Bit Much.

about the risks posed by a group that comprises a tiny part of the population. Like, even if every single transwoman was a convicted sex offender it'd still be a tiny fraction of the population.

We don’t normally exempt sex offenders to ignore all normal safeguarding rules and requirements. We don’t normally allow male sex offenders to wander freely around a female changing room while teenage girls are changing for a swimming competition for example.

We do however let men who could well be sex offenders wander around a female changing room full of teenage girls unchallenged (see the Anne Coombes swimmer thread on this) if they claim a trans identity.

My opinion. I don’t need to give a reason. Don’t need to listen to false logic arguments. It’s so simple, so binary, so black & white, so yes/no.

Men are men. Men pretending to be anything other are still men.

A person who is a medical or mental health difference, well, that’s a disability. In the UK, a disability is defined by the Equality Act 2010 as having a physical or mental impairment that has a substantial and long-term adverse effect on a person's ability to carry out normal day-to-day activities. This definition applies to both physical and mental impairments, and the adverse effect must be substantial and long-term to be considered a disability.

You might not be Eligible for benefits … but if you have too many chromosomes (more than 2) - that’s a Syndrome.

You can ask for the moon, but it is simply not possible for the NHS to have women members of staff on call if and when a patient expresses a preference for one.

patients in the NHS are cared for differently depending on their diagnosed condition. So people receiving care for X will be cared for in an area/ward appropriate for patients with X.
They will be cared for by members of staff with relevant training etc. The wards will cleaned by cleaning staff and maintained by maintenance staff. Patients will be visited by friends and family members - all of these people will have different genitalia. That’s okay! Other people’s genitalia need not concern us. Thank goodness! 😊

The genitalia obsession continues.

So why are we meant to have single sex wards?

You can what about all you like wrt maintenance staff. But the NHS is meant to provide single sex wards.

Not single gender wards.

And patients are allowed to request same sex intimate care. (Even if that means they may have to sometimes wait.)

My point is that all wards/areas of the NHS will include men and women - be they patients or members of staff.

But you accept the NHS is meant to provide single sex wards?

Yes - patients are very vulnerable in hospital, they should be able to know who is treating them

Here you go. 🙂www.england.nhs.uk/long-read/delivering-same-sex-accommodation/

'That’s okay! Other people’s genitalia need not concern us. Thank goodness! 😊'

It's not about genitalia, it's about (biological) sex.

There is a reason that the NHS has single sex wards, and that patients can ask for a doctor of their own sex.

https://www.pulsetoday.co.uk/news/clinical-areas/womens-health/patients-right-to-request-same-sex-intimate-care-to-be-included-in-nhs-constitution/

'The Government is proposing to change the NHS Constitution so that patients have a right to request that intimate care is carried out by someone of the same biological sex.
Today it launched a consultation on changes to the constitution – a document outlining the rights of patients and staff – which will run for eight weeks.
Other proposed changes include ‘reinforcing the NHS’s commitment to providing single sex wards’ and setting out that placing transgender patients in single-room accommodation ‘is permissible’ under the Equality Act 2010 ‘when it is appropriate’.

'Permissible' (you can, you really don't have to) 'when appropriate' (clue: it never will be).

Stuff that. Single sex MEANS single sex, by law. End of.

It's not clear to me whether "intimate care" is only the scope of carers and nurses, or whether it could include doctors. What would Dr U have to say about that?

And is the BMA still insisting on registering doctors under their gender not their sex? If so, how would a single-sex request be enforced?

"I would like a female doctor please."
Transwoman with GRC is called in.
"No, not you, I know you're a man."
"But I'm not, I'm a registered female doctor. And I have a birth certificate to match."
"I know you're a man."
"I'm not."
"You are."